During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Carlos and Combalona, and Dormammu.
Sherlock: Case of Evil now has a page.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."- Golgo 13
- Supergun: Saddam Hussein is the dictator of Iraq. Recruiting the weapons inventor Murai, Saddam funds the design of the "Supergun", capable of reaching even the United States. Provoking an attack from the US by bombing and destroying Kurdish villages, Saddam intends on firing a shell to annihilate Washington DC, including a nerve agent with a 45 percent mortality rate to completely erase the city.
- The Glass Fortress: Vargas Walton is a seemingly philanthropic millionaire who lives in an untouchable island fortress. Funding terrorist groups to kill tens of thousands of innocents, Walton gets the money by playing a charitable man who takes in lost women, giving them hope, only to have then harvested for their organs in titanic numbers, proving himself as one of the victims' fathers calls him: a heartless monster who deals in hearts.
- The Brutes' Banquest: Gabriel Rosmacdonald and Ignmar Petensen are a pair of sadistic millionaires who derive pleasure from the pain of others. Having filmed numerous atrocities, the two have seen numerous villages massacred and ethnically cleansed to be filmed by them, and many others tortured with some even fed to swarms of piranha. The two now bet on blood sports to pit others to the death in arenas where some will inevitably be killed, including the skilled assassin Spartacus whom they send against Golgo 13 on guise of protecting them. Their behavior so revolts Spartacus that he uses his final moments to pay Golgo 13 to make sure they do not outlive him long.
Quick question: should I delete an instance of Complete Monster being used as a pothole? Came across this on a South Park recap page:
- Downer Ending: Cartman manages to manipulate Scott into accidentally getting his own parents killed, has him devour their corpses, and cements himself as a sociopathic demon and a would-be Complete Monster if South Park took itself seriously.
(Even if you can pothole CM, I think the clause should be deleted - if South Park took itself seriously, Cartman still wouldn't count as a CM and it's weird to suggest he would.)
To get this out of the way:
Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme: Dormammu is a demonic being, who is responsible for the destruction of his own homeworld. Upon discovering Earth, Dormammu tried to attack it, only to be driven off by The Ancient One, who imprisoned him in Nexus. To free himself, Dormammu put dozens of children in the coma and used their minds to open enough veils to create a portal from Nexus to Earth. Influencing his monsters to rampage through the city and kill countless innocents, as well as the students of The Ancient One, Dormammu managed to free himself, after which he proclaimed his intention to raze the Earth and eradicate humanity.
So, I've been re-reading One Piece (again) and I realized that there's a bit of misinformation with Kuro's entry. I italicized it.
- Kuro Arc: The titular Captain Kuro was once a feared pirate running from the existence of bounty hunters and marines. As a result, Kuro hatched a scheme by slaughtering every marine on a ship—save one—and has Jango hypnotize a crew member and the surviving marine to make them think they were Captain Kuro and his captor, leading to the execution of the fake Kuro. After fleeing to Sugar Island, he disguised himself as a butler of a kind and sickly girl named Kaya after her parents died. It was revealed that Kuro plotted to have his former crew arrive and slaughter the island while he'd have Kaya hypnotized to write him as the beneficiary of her will before he murdered her. After Kaya bought him a gift of new glasses, Kuro heartlessly crushed them and attempted to kill her other servant. When Kaya said she'd have just given him the money, he admitted he just wanted her dead for the sake of his ego. Kuro was also planning on killing his crew to complete his disappearance and when, fighting Luffy, used an attack that led to them being nearly massacred by him.
Now, while Kuro did plan for his crew to attack the village, and Usopp does talk about everyone being killed, nowhere does Kuro himself talk about having anyone other than Kaya killed. Even when talking with Jango about the attack, he explicitly tells him to simply rough up a few villagers. The main plan was to cause destruction on the buildings so that Kaya's death would look like an accident.
To clarify, I'm not saying we should cut Kuro. The massacre of a Navy ship, intending to slaughter his whole crew, and the touches of personal villainy are still notable for someone of his tier. Just that the slaughtering the island bit isn't really accurate.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 6th 2021 at 11:13:25 AM
Django says the crew is so bloodthirsty they're ready to kill one another. Kuro says "rough up some villagers," but the story treats it as the village in danger. A page later, Usopp says "they'll all be killed! Everyone in te village I grew up in! They'll kill Kaya! Everyone I love!"
and at the end of the chapter, Kuro says "Tomorrow at dawn! Destroy the village!"
I agree that the village was in danger, but Kuro was explicitly aiming for property and collateral damage as opposed to an outright massacre. Destroy the village doesn't mean kill everybody, especially when, despite Usopp saying they'll kill everyone, Kuro said nothing about the other villagers' fates beyond some of them being roughed up.
Still, it's admittedly a minor gripe either way.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 6th 2021 at 11:10:15 AM
Yup to Dormammu, Carlos, and Really Long Name Lupin Person.
Abstain on the goatm'n; this sounds like one of those movies that's such a Mind Screw that you have to personally see it to reach a conclusion.
Alright, it's past midnight on Monday, June 7th, here, so it's now been two weeks since the end date of the fourth and final season of Black Lightning. No one reserved it, it looks like, but I'll just say that in my view there are no new keepers here.
Tobias Whale once again returns as the Big Bad, and just as before, Even Evil Has Loved Ones is still absolutely fully in play with regards to his sister Tori—in fact, at least part of his motives this season are revenge on the Piereces for what he feels is their role in her death. Most of the other villains are working for Tobias in one way or another (like Red, Val, or ultimately Ishmael), so they obviously don't count either, and Lala and Destiny are both firmly Big Bad Wannabes when compared with Tobias (and Lala still consistently shows redeeming qualities, as he always has). Lady Eve does not return this season, with Destiny acting as The Heavy for the Kobra Kartel in her stead.
It is worth noting that this season features a return of The Looker, who previously counted as a Complete Monster (my first writeup here, two years ago!) from her two episode arc in season two, and my view is that she still absolutely counts here. She returns under Tobias' payroll but other than that, she's pretty much the exact same racist, despicable monster she was back in season two, and Khalil only ultimately gets her to testify that she used her powers to frame the Pierces by withholding an antidote to his poison from her, so her testimony is entirely Pragmatic Villainy.
There is also the mysterious Maya, the villain of the episode "Painkiller" and presumably intended to be the Big Bad of the proposed spinoff before the plug was pulled on it. She's also the daughter of Percy Odell from seasons 2 and 3. She seems to head a Nebulous Evil Organization, but with the spinoff cancelled, it looks like that'll firmly remain an Aborted Arc.
All in all, the series concludes with two CMs: Martin Procter and The Looker. In my view, anyway. If anyone disagrees, hey, feel free to propose a candidate.
Own EP now...
What's the work?
Tarzan: The Epic Adventures was the headline series, to quote the tropes page: "The pilot begins similarly to The Return of Tarzan, with Tarzan (Joe Lara) separated from Jane and hanging out in pre-World War I Paris with his friend Paul D'Arnot while tangling with the villainous Russian aristocrat Nikolai Rokoff. After an adventure that takes him and Rokoff back into Africa with a side trip to Pellucidar, Tarzan decides to remain in the jungle, where he goes on to meet other Burroughs creations such as the Waziri, Queen La and the Leopard Men."
The start of the show died not long ago, Joe Lara, in a plane crash.
My first villain here? Sheeta the Leopard Demon.
Who is Sheeta?
A fiendish demon who enjoys terrorizing mortals. Sheeta possesses Tarzan's friend Kali to establish a cult of human sacrifice, with her followers, the Leopard Men. Sheeta's usual little gambit? She possesses someone, mind controls others into being followers and has innocent people rounded up to be sacrificed upon her personal Altars of Blood. Using the Leopard Men, she has tribes rounded up en masse for huge blood sacrifices, while mocking tarzan over any failure to stop her...and also reminding him to stop her, he needs to kill Kali, which won't really do much to Sheeta herself.
With the tribes taken, Sheeta prepares a gigantic sacrifice and then to have even more villages dragged to her alatars to be destroyed, trying to mind control Tarzan into doing it, though Tarzan is too strong for her. Tarzan manages to inspire Kali to fight back however, and her will overpowers Sheeta, banishing the demon, hopefully for good.
Any mitigating issues?
an enormous attempted bodycount with a huge pattern, clear intends to keep it going, a direct and firm personality with sadistic touches...there's a few other monsters, but Sheeta is probably the worst with the religion of mass sacrifice which she does because...she's evil.
Not much else to say...
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jun 6th 2021 at 9:50:31 AM
As a way of apologizing for my attempt at a Complete Monster example, allow me to provide a better one that also serves as an advertisement for my newest fanfiction.
- Steven Universe: Alternate Future: Black Rutile is said by her creator to be inspired by fellow villains like Captain Hook, Yzma & Lord Dominator and compared to the likes of Frieza, Lex Luthor, Megatron & Aku, and it really shows whenever she takes center stage as the main antagonist. Black Rutile's a former intelligence officer of White Diamond who holds a vendetta against Pink Diamond for getting everything she wants by whining while Black Rutile earned a shockingly high status for a Gem of her type through decades of hard work and as such, began plotting against Pink for the next thousands of years up until Steven came into the picture and caused the Diamonds to perform their Heel–Face Turn. Disgusted at how one half-human child could change an entire way of life through words alone, Black Rutile accuses Steven of being Not So Different from Pink and shifted her attention to him. She proudly proclaims to have gained a superiority complex as a result and believes she's more worthy to rule the Gems, but a Bad Future shows that she would become a worse tyrant than the Diamonds. Assembling a Legion of Doom out of past foes of the Crystal Gems who were just as angered with Era 3, Black Rutile put her plan into action, warping the minds of fellow Gems into thinking Steven is the real villain for ruining their way of life and gathering as much intel as possible on her foes in preparation for their demise. When forced to take matters into her own hands, Black Rutile shows that she is a fierce and violent warrior as well, shattering a Bismuth for trying to speak out against her, plotting to destroy the Earth by awakening the Cluster and trying to murder Steven by dropping him off a cliff, also making sure to have him crushed with a boulder in case he tries to use his powers to escape. Hessonite describes Black Rutile as cunning, devious, opportunistic sociopathic monster, and so far, Black Rutile ticks many of those boxes.
