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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#263126: Jun 4th 2021 at 10:51:45 PM

Alright. With Amphibia season 2. Boy, what a season. In layman's terms, Amphibia is about 13-year-old Anne Boonchuy who is convinced by her two best friends - Sasha Waybright, and Marcy Wu - to swipe a music box from an antique store. Anne opens the box, and they are whisked to a world of talking frogs, toads, newts, and salamanders. Anne ends up living with the Plantar family; Sasha goes on to become the right-hand girl of the villainous toad Captain Grime; and Marcy ends up becoming the Chief Ranger in Newtopia, the capital city of the world of Amphibia.

So with any possible candidates...obviously Grime and Sasha are tossed out of the equation. Grime, while power-hungry and ruthless, genuinely cares for Sasha even saving her life after the collapse of the first Toad Tower. Sasha, despite being manipulative and a toxic influence, truly cares for her two friends and only joins Grime at first as a means of finding out a way for her and her friends to return home. Besides them, a few minor antagonists are also thrown in the ring, but they aren't heinous enough. But for the likeliest potential keeper to keep an eye on?

     True Colors 

There is the King of Amphibia himself, King Andrias Leviathan, a king-sized newt. When he was introduced early on in the season, it was already made apparent that the king was planning something. He introduces himself as a goofy, grandfatherly figure who is too eager on helping the girls return home. But to do so, they needed to recharge the gems on the music box now given the name of the Calamity Box, an interdimensional device that Andrias claimed was used by his ancestors to explore other worlds. To recharge them, they needed to go to three temples each somehow connected to the three human girls. Once he heard news of the team's success at the first temple? He excuses himself so he could converse with his master...a 13-eyed Mechanical Abomination saying that soon they would have their revenge.

Going into the finale, "True Colors," it flips several things on their heads. So in it, Sasha and Grime temporarily take control of Newtopia leaving Anne and the team to try to fight back. While Sasha regrets her decision on betraying Anne (again), she and Grime decide to renovate the kingdom starting by removing a conveniently-placed tapestry of Andrias. But underneath it was a mural depicting Andrias standing over a pile of bones with the Calamity Box in his hands thus exposing the truth behind his antics: the goofy, kewl ruler? All just a mere facade.

Of course after Sasha and Grime fail to warn Anne and the king is given the Calamity Box, he reveals what was already pretty much obvious from the beginning: his ancestors were conquerors of worlds and now that he had the box back in his possession, he would use its powers to not only take over Amphibia, but all worlds, and judging by him standing over mounds of skeletons of his enemies, it is pretty self-explanatory that what he intends on doing to worlds such as the Earth aren't pretty. He then puts the box on a stand and it makes his castle fly, uncaring that doing so would endanger several of his subjects caught in the falling debris. He also decides to demonstrate his power by launching a beam at the second Toad Tower and causing it to explode possibly killing dozens of toads there.

As he tries to kill Anne and the others, Marcy intervenes shocked that Andrias was going against their plan. Through which he made a deal with Marcy that if she charged the gems and Andrias could then "explore" other worlds, she and her friends would be able to go on endless adventures forever. That before telling the others that Marcy knew about the Calamity Box and its interdimensional mechanisms, making Anne and Sasha go to some Death World without their agency, because she learned her father got a new job out of state meaning that she'd have to move.

From there, the team try to take the Calamity Box from Andrias and defeat his legions of robo-frogs leading to him trying to stomp on Polly, a tadpole, as in a baby frog, only to be stopped by Frobo, a defective robot of his. He then unceremoniously smashes it (Frobo is established as a sapient character to his credit). In the same breath, he tries to crush Polly with his fist only for her to get her legs. She gets the box and the flying castle descends. They celebrate....

But that is short lived due to Andrias taking Sprig in his clutches and threatens to drop him from the window if his demands are not met. Even when the box is returned, he drops Sprig anyway. With her best friend seemingly dead, Anne unlocks her powers from the gem on the Calamity Box essentially going Super Saiyan/full cowling. She lays a couple punches to Andrias before fainting due to her inability of controlling it.

Andrias tries to kill the Plantars again...but the castle starts to fall again this time Marcy being the one to take the box and configuring it to create a portal to Earth. While Sasha and Grime fight Andrias off, Marcy beckons them into the portal...but she gets stabbed through the chest by Andrias's flaming sword. With that, Anne returns to Earth but brings her frog family with her.

As far as a Freudian Excuse goes? Andrias explains that thousands of years ago, he had two friends that "betrayed" him and took the box from under his nose thus making Newtopia lose its technological greatness. This does play some parts in his role: in "A Day at the Aquarium," he talks to Marcy about how sad it was to see someone go (when Anne decides to head back to Wartwood with the Plantars) before offering her a proposition. Of course, hindsight reveals that he was manipulating her. When Anne begs him to spare Sprig because he was her best friend in the world, he spitefully says in regards to friends "the more you love them, the more it hurts to see them go." At one point in time, you could say that he cared for his friends, but that had far since died.

But my issue with that is it does not explain why he is such a psychotic megalomaniac with delusions of being a Multiversal Conqueror. In fact how the episode itself plays it? It is more than likely that his friends betrayed him because he was batshit insane. That, and given how much he loves to indulge in Kick the Dog and is very much a Psychotic Manchild bully, doesn't seem he was ever pleasant.

With mitigating factors, to start with: Marcy. He openly admits that he allowed her to spill her heart out to him solely so he could manipulate her as a pawn. He's the type of dick who would gleefully expose the secret of how the girls arrived to Amphibia in the first place even when she told him that in confidence. That's not even getting to him stabbing her in the back. So, the trailer for season 3 shows that Marcy is actually Not Quite Dead...technically as she was inside a healing tube. Some had already jumped to conclusions that it meant that Andrias cared for Marcy despite openly telling her that he duped her. Sure, I can totally see where they are coming from. I mean it's not like it was his own fault that Marcy was put in there. In all seriousness, when the trailer goes out of its way to show Marcy being observed by the 13-eyed monster Andrias serves, it all spells to Andrias likely saving her for pragmatic reasons.

Heinous-wise, he wants to conquer all worlds and, with the mural as an indication, his method of conquering them will be brutal. He definitely has the resources for his schemes and he also has moments where he is willing to kill a child up to and stabbing a 13-year-old on screen.

But for the most part, I feel that Andrias may as well should be put on the "wait-and-see" list. Normally in these cases I wouldn't mind writing him up, which would then be tedious if the third season does give him disqualifying factors. The reason I am saying this is because we still don't fully know what his revenge scheme entails. All we know is that it is there to undo a prophecy regarding the three girls about fighting a creature known as the Night, which is assumed to be Andrias' master. Andrias' Master may also be someone that needs to be put on the "wait and see list" because it literally only made its physical appearance in one episode where it does nothing of note.

So, overall, Andrias has potential, but we'll have to see how the rest plays out.

[down] to put on the "wait and see" list?

Edited by AustinDR on Jun 4th 2021 at 11:37:37 AM

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#263127: Jun 4th 2021 at 10:53:16 PM

Yah alright, dropping Equinox. Might try him on the MB thread instead, since he's got enough WIE vibes going. In the meantime, I'll try another Brave and the Bold CM.

EDIT: my bad, sorry

Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 4th 2021 at 11:01:03 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#263128: Jun 4th 2021 at 10:54:38 PM

I honestly kinda hope he turns out to qualify, if only so we can say Keith David has three Complete Monster roles are from amphibian-centered cartoons. [lol]

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#263129: Jun 4th 2021 at 11:00:38 PM

Andrias? We'll just see what happens.

IPP Wick Check created.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#263130: Jun 4th 2021 at 11:01:50 PM

I mean, that's what I just said. But yeah.

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#263132: Jun 4th 2021 at 11:44:08 PM

Aight, might as well. Next Batman: BATB CM candidate, Mongul.

Who is Mongul and what has he done?

Mongul is the dictator of War World, and makes it his way of life to search for warriors to fight to the death. In "Duel of the Double Crossers!" He employs Bounty Hunter Jonah Hex, apparently indebted to the War Lord for saving his life, and travel through history searching for warriors in exchange for being returned to his own time. Hex does just this, but none of the warriors are able to win against Steppenwolf, the champion of Mongul's rival and sister, Mongal. Hex has grown fed up and wants to quit, but Mongul orders him to recruit one last warrior for him, Batman. Batman puts up a fight, but ultimately is defeated and captured by Hex, who brings him before Mongul. However, in spite of this, Mongul does not hold up his end of the deal, leading Hex to almost betray Mongul before settling on an ominous warning.

Batman is sent in to battle in the arena among Mongul's gladiators, with Mongul watching in amusement. With assistance from Hex, they manage to take Steppenwolf down, to Mongul's delight. But the gladiators do not stop there and then move to free Mongul's other prisoners, where they fight Mongal and her warriors and manage to win. Mongul himself then steps in and fights and overwhelms Batman and Hex. They finally manage to defeat him by opening all the prisoners' cells, which destroys the time portal controls in the process. Mongul is then pursued by all the angry gladiators he had captured.

In "Death Race to Oblivion!", Mongul returns now with Steppenwolf in his employment, travelling to Earth to get revenge on Batman. Mongul uses the War Moon to create a race circuit and teleports many of Earth's heroes and villains to have them compete in a Death Race, with the stakes being the fate of the Earth. If any of the participants wins, then they will be made ruler of Earth. But if Mongul's champion Steppenwolf wins, he will destroy the Earth with the War Moon. Anyone who loses will get teleported into a cage where they will be executed after the race ends. Anyone who refuses to participate, Mongul will destroy their hometown. Other than that there are no rules.

Batman and Green Arrow secretly form a plan, with Batman ruthlessly taking out the competition to keep Mongul distracted, while Green Arrow let's himself lose so that he can break the other heroes out and fight Mongul directly. At one point, Batman gets knocked off the ring, and turns the Batmobile into a plane. Mongul considers disqualifying Batman for using a vehicle other than a car, only for Batman to retort that Mongul himself said there were no other rules, to which Mongul is amused and let's it slip. Mongul is deeply impressed and entertained by Batman's relentlessness. Batman eventually comes out as the victor, defeating Steppenwolf the last racer to fall. Mongul gives his congratulations, while blasting Steppenwolf in a You Have Failed Me moment while calling him his "ex-champion". Howeve Mongul then reveals he never intended to keep his word and is going to destroy the Earth anyway. Batman tells him he never trusted him, just in time for the War Moon get blown up by the heroes. When an enraged Mongul tries to attack, Batman turns the Batmobile into a mech and defeats Mongul in a single punch.

Mitigating Factors?

None. No loved ones, he hates his own sister, and is a Bad Boss who executed Steppenwolf for failing him. No Freudian Excuse, Mongul just does what he does because he enjoys it and derides sadistic pleasure from watching death matches and Absurdly High Stakes Games. And of course, definitely no agency problems. While he does treat many of his gladiators with respect, it is a purely Faux Affably Evil act and he will betray them once they outlive their usefulness.

Heinous Standard

Mongul matches the heinous standard set by Faceless Hunter, being another planet destroying Omnicidal Maniac with very similar resources. Mongul has a War Moon and Faceless has Starro. Now while Faceless has more confirmed planets destroyed to his name, this is mostly Offscreen Villainy which one could also attribute to Mongul as it's implied the War Moon has destroyed planets before.

I'd argue in terms of motives, Mongul might actually be worse, as he wanted to destroy the Earth out of spite while turning it into a game to amuse him. Which feels a great deal more sadistic.

Final verdict?

[tup]

Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 5th 2021 at 5:20:48 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#263133: Jun 5th 2021 at 1:35:37 AM

Andrias: Wait until Season 3 releases.

Eh, good enough.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#263134: Jun 5th 2021 at 1:40:02 AM

Yes to Priest.

And, as he seems heinous enough, yes to Mongul.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#263135: Jun 5th 2021 at 1:53:19 AM

Here's my issue with Mongul—far as memory serves, his worst action is trying to destroy Earth. He's a guy with an entire war moon and army, and that's a nasty bout of villainy, but...Faceless Hunter utterly trounces him in every respect. Personal sadism and intended bodycount. Mongul's targeting Earth, Faceless Hunter has wiped out world after world with Starro then plans to continue onto the entire universe just for fun. And all this while being just a dude with prominent fighting skills and technology—no war moon or armies or sibling as powerful as himself. Just ambition to take advantage of Starro and serve him until he finds a better way to cause destruction.

Even looking beyond Faceless Hunter, I can think of a couple other baddies who threatened most or all of life on Earth—Ra's Al-Ghul, Silver Cyclone, and Darkseid come to mind—and there's even a minor baddie or two that nearly destroy worlds before being taken down. Joker even blows up an entire planet in a Played for Laughs sequence [lol]

Mongul has some more meat to his threats, and subjecting heroes to gladiator fights or death races is rough, but...enough to push him past the rather high heinous standard? I'm admittedly not feeling he does so too strongly, tbh, but that's just me and I wouldn't be too terribly opposed to him going up...I just don't feel he's quite head-and-shoulders above other villains.

Edited by Ravok on Jun 5th 2021 at 1:54:16 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#263136: Jun 5th 2021 at 2:10:16 AM

[up]Well comparing him to Faceless, both dudes have Offscreen Villainy. It's never directly stated, but it's implied that he has used the War Moon to destroy at least another planet before, based on the fact Batman knew its capability. Not sure I'd say Starro is a smaller resource than a War Moon, plus he can create an army through Starro's clones.

And in regards to motive, Faceless doesn't seem as sadistic imo. He feels more like an extremist Egomaniac Hunter who kills to add to his collection. Contrast Mongul who just likes watching his toys squirm as they struggle to stay alive.

I thought Darkseid just wanted to conquer the Earth, not kill everyone on it? As for Ra's, he had pure WIE goals so not sure if he can contribute to the heinous standard.

But yes, Silver Cyclone is another possible keeper. nwotyzal might be wanting to do that one.

Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 5th 2021 at 4:22:45 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#263137: Jun 5th 2021 at 3:02:30 AM

Andrias is a wait and see. We don't know QUITE what happened with his friends, but he clearly took it badly (he only makes the decision to throw Sprig out the window when Anne says he's her best friend).

The Night (which I think is the Computer Abomination thing) might well qualify though.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#263139: Jun 5th 2021 at 5:01:30 AM

Wait, "gf"?

You son of a bitch, TVTropes DIDN'T ruin your life!

On a serious note, [tup] to Priest.

[tdown] to Equinox and abstain on Mongul.

I'll just continue on otherwise since I've missed a lot of candidates.

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#263140: Jun 5th 2021 at 5:13:26 AM

[tup] to Priest.

Definitely agree Andrias is a wait and see, but I hope he makes it as well.

I'll also abstain on Mongul.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#263141: Jun 5th 2021 at 5:36:37 AM

[tup] The Priest. Abstain on Mongul.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#263142: Jun 5th 2021 at 6:32:03 AM

[tup] Priest

[tdown] Mongul based on Ravok's further detail.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#263143: Jun 5th 2021 at 6:58:45 AM

Definitely wait and see on Andrias, the season 3 opener and the whole ambiguity from how things went down between him and his friends gives way too much leeway for it to be a decisive decision

[tup]Priest

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#263144: Jun 5th 2021 at 7:16:30 AM

[tup]Priest

Really not sure in Mongul honestly. I'll think on it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#263145: Jun 5th 2021 at 7:17:32 AM

Abstain on Mongul (don’t really remember him being taken too seriously tbh)

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#263146: Jun 5th 2021 at 8:06:16 AM

I have one quote in mind.

Those girls came from nothing. Starving in their villages. Sold by their relatives or stupid enough to believe that people are just handing out fresh new lives here in America. They were broken dolls before they ever got on those ships.
Julian McCaffrey, Lucifer (2016)

Edited by RK93 on Jun 5th 2021 at 6:54:02 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#263147: Jun 5th 2021 at 9:19:06 AM

No to Mongul but yes to Priest from Ravok’s hilariously bad film!

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#263149: Jun 5th 2021 at 9:44:54 AM

Yeah to Priest, no to Mongul, and wait and see on Andrias (I do hope he or his master makes it, though).

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#263150: Jun 5th 2021 at 9:45:39 AM

[tup] to Priest. [tdown] to Mongul.
Belated happy birthday, MasterN.


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