TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#262126: May 28th 2021 at 1:57:55 AM

Yes to the first Corinthian and Ingrid

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#262127: May 28th 2021 at 1:58:45 AM

[tup]Corinthian

Honestly I'll give Ingrid a yes even if I haven't read it yet. Easily over the line and sounds the worst of an already evil species.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AlternativeCola Since: Apr, 2013
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#262131: May 28th 2021 at 7:18:25 AM

Alright, I've finally got something for this thread that isn't related to Buffy or a RWBY fanfic, so this is exciting! Time for my first two book keepers - and a shout-out to my girlfriend to loaning me this book.

What is the work?

The Lost is a horror novel by Natasha Preston. In it, a seventeen year old girl named Piper is out with her friend Hazel when they get kidnapped by a group of rich boys. They and several others are imprisoned in a high-tech shack in the woods, put through excruciating torture on a common basis so as to entertain the boys. As the book goes on, the boys spiral more and more, the prisoners become more and more desperate to escape, but they're opposed to the leader of the boys, Caleb.

Who is Caleb? What does he do?

Caleb is the leader of the rich kids. Originally seeming to be charming and funny, Caleb is in truth a sadistic psychopath who kidnaps Piper and her friend Hazel after manipulating them into his car. Leading them into his basement, he then locks the door, then takes sadistic pleasure in informing them that they'll never escape. Over the next weeks, they are several previous victims are tortured in a variety of horrific ways, including being locked in a room to boil and then freeze, locked in a room with incredibly loud sound, and locked in a room where they are tied to a bed and waterboarded for several hours. They all live under the threat of being sent to room zero, where two of them are forced to fight to the death; by the time Piper arrives, two of the people there have already had to kill someone. As Caleb is the leader, he's often heard giving the orders, making him the face of the operation.

One night, Piper and Theo see that the doors outside are unlocked, but when they tentatively walk outside to see what's happening, they're locked outside. Caleb then reveals himself holding a sword, clearly intending to hunt them down Ramsay Bolton style. They run for their lives and manage to make it back to the cabin, and Caleb "rewards" them by waterboarding Piper for several hours out of spite, forcing one of her fellow captives to witness it because she tried to escape. He then has one of the captives, Kevin, taken out of the room, holding the threat of him being sent to room zero over their heads for the rest of the book.

Eventually, one of Caleb's partners, Evan, decides that he wants to go in an experience it himself, which Caleb is totally fine doing - first he subjects Evan to blinding light and extreme darkness, then he ties Evan down and has him beat while forcing Piper to watch just to mentally torment her further. However, this backfires when Piper gets an idea to burn the place down. She succeeds, forcing Caleb to release them so that the fire department wouldn't discover their bodies, but he confronts the escapees outside. When one of them makes a move, he executes two of them on the spot. Evan, who has become obsessed with Piper at this point, guns down his and Caleb's two other partners, to which Caleb responds by saying he thought better of them.

Although he and Evan chase down the remaining escapees, they get arrested by the police responding to the fire. However, they both manage to choke out the police transferring them with their cuffs, making the car crash. Caleb then hijacks a car for them to escape in, taking Evan to Piper's house first so that he can take her, where they presumably escape into the night. Karma Houdini at its most disturbing.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

What could compel to do something this horrible? What could he possibly have to justify his heinous actions?

He got bored. And when his "friends" are gunned down in front of him, his response is to say they were stupid.

You see the kind of person we're dealing with?

Is he heinous enough?

He's the leader of the kidnappers, he's the only one we see actually take part in it himself, much less multiple times, he's the only one of them to kill someone himself, and the news reports in the beginning indicates that he has 11 victims before Piper and Hazel are kidnapped - by the time they arrive, seven of them are already dead. Owen and Matt, the other two we see with Caleb all the time, don't come anywhere near him - the only one I could say is tied with him is Evan, who's getting an EP soon and whose crimes are a bit more personal, so yeah, he's fine here.

Final verdict?

First easy keeper of two.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 28th 2021 at 4:03:42 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#262134: May 28th 2021 at 7:26:31 AM

Yes to Caleb.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#262135: May 28th 2021 at 8:06:44 AM

And moving on to the second one from The Lost, we have Evan.

Who is Evan? What does he do?

Evan is introduced when he lets himself be put into the game. Having become obsessed with Piper after seeing the way she takes charge, Evan decides he needs to get in there and experience the torture for himself. Pretending that he had actually been locked away by Caleb and the others for six months and kept hidden, he concocts an elaborate sob story about the torture he's endured during that time, forging a connection with Piper in the process. Along the way, he endures torture with her, including the blinding light and being beaten to a pulp, just to understand the torture he inflicts on others better and continue making that connection with Piper.

Eventually, Piper comes up with the plan to burn the place down, which Evan eagerly participates in due to his love for destruction. When Caleb lets them out, Evan betrays the group to side with his partners, but demands that he be able to take Piper with him because he likes her. When Matt and Owen aren't onboard with this, Evan guns them both down on the spot and forces Caleb to let her come with him, giving Piper and the others time to escape. The two chase them down, only to get caught by the police.

Leading Caleb in killing the two officers transferring them, Evan then takes the lead, commanding Caleb to find a car for them and making him go to Piper's house. He enters her room through the window, demanding that she pack a bag so that she can come with him. When Piper objects for obvious reasons, Evan tells her that if her parents get home before they're gone, he'll have to kill them, so then she agrees to leave. The book ends with Evan imagining the destruction the two of them will be capable of causing - him and his unwilling accomplice.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

His "love" for Piper? Nothing more than selfish, insane projection and obsession. He doesn't truly love her, he just thinks she's capable of being as insane and destructive as he is. It's pure In Love with Your Carnage where the "carnage" doesn't even exist. As soon as she goes against him, he calls her a liar and tries to kill her friends and family so that he can have her all for himself. He even says at one point "I like her. I want to keep her" like she's just a toy for him. It's not disqualifying.

And just to be safe, while he has absolutely no screws left in his brain, there's no indication that he doesn't understand right and wrong - he's crazy, crazy enough that he wanted to be let into the torture rooms just because he wanted to experience it for himself and "understand it" better, but there's no indication that he's outright insane or can't understand reality, so he has agency.

Is he heinous enough?

Not only is he complicit in all of Caleb's actions, he matches Caleb's kill count by killing his own partners, has the added sting of personal betrayal, and develops a very personal fixation on Piper that includes threatening to kill her parents to keep her with him. Yeah, he and Caleb both easily keep side-by-side.

Final verdict?

Easy keeper no.2

[down] Choking them from behind with the chain

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 28th 2021 at 11:16:43 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#262136: May 28th 2021 at 8:15:58 AM

And a yes.

How did they manage to kill the cops...while handcuffed?

[up] Oy. Idiot cops...cuff their hands BEHIND their backs.

Edited by ACW on May 28th 2021 at 11:24:31 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#262137: May 28th 2021 at 8:18:48 AM

[tup]caleb and Evan

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#262139: May 28th 2021 at 8:57:17 AM

[tup]Caleb & Evan

Also good news guys, I just had my graduation ceremony yesterday.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#262140: May 28th 2021 at 9:02:15 AM

[tup] to Caleb and Evan.

[up] oh hey, i'm having mine later today! Unless it rains, but hey, at least i won't have to sit for two hours.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#262141: May 28th 2021 at 9:03:59 AM

[tup] to Caleb and Evan.

Congratulations nwotyzal, its an experience your never forget.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#262143: May 28th 2021 at 9:29:42 AM

[tup] Caleb and Evan. Congrats, nwotyzal.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#262144: May 28th 2021 at 10:09:42 AM

[tup] to Caleb and Evan.

@nwotyzal: Congratulations.

@DoodSlayer136: Best of luck to your ceremony.

Yesterday was my birthday and today is my first-year anniversary on this thread, so to celebrate, I have another candidate.

What's the Work?

New Avengers/Transformers was a non-canon comic crossover between the two titular franchises, in which the Decepticons have arrived on the Avengers' Earth and have a plan that could endanger the entire world. Although the Avengers can't defeat them on their own, the Autobots have fortunately joined forces with them and their coalition stands as the last hope to saving the world. As for the main threat...

Who is Megatron and What Has He Done?

Megatron, as always, is the leader of the Decepticons, who desires more power against his conflict with the Autobots by gaining Energon. To acquire this resource, he has traveled to many worlds, inciting conflict amongst their inhabitants to wipe out all life on them and steal their Energon deposits. Having serially repeated this process, they now intend to carry over this plan to the Avengers' Earth, in which they've stolen a device called the Psycho-Prism from Dr. Doom, which makes people more aggressive. With this device, Megatron plans on inciting a nuclear war between two countries, Latveria and Symkaria, which will escalate into a full-blown apocalypse to wipe out all human life.

Working together with Dr. Doom, they plant the Pyscho-Prism to stir Dr. Doom's robot army into decimating themselves, drive the two aforementiond nations into launching air strikes against each other and mobilizing their forces, and even influence the Avengers to be more aggressive than usual. Meanwhile, the Decepticons kidnap Spiderman to siphon his powers for themselves and thus make them more powerful, physically tormenting him in the process. As the Autobots and Avengers arrive, Megatron sends his Decepticons use their newfound powers to battle them. When his Decepticons fail, Megatron betrays Dr. Doom and plans on leaving him to die with the rest of humanity, while he joins the fray to kill the Avengers and Autobots himself, even spitefully trying to kill Iron Man in front of Optimus out of spite. To make a long story short, the Avengers destroy the Psycho-Prism and Megatron gets killed, but not before he spends his last breath cursing both Optimus Prime and humanity as a whole.

Does He Have Any Mitigating Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

The closest thing to a mitigating quality would be Offscreen Villainy in regards to wiping out other planets, but I don't think this puts too much of a damper on him because we already get to see him try this same process on Earth, in which we get to see Latveria and Symkaria mobilizing for a nuclear war and the Avengers becoming extremely aggressive. In other words, we do get to see the effects of Megatron's plans to wipe out entire planets by inciting an apocalyptic war amongst their inhabitants and it very nearly happens until his defeat mere hours before the declaration of war, so I'd say he's fine in terms of hte visibility of his on-screen crimes. Otherwise, no other mitigating qualities.

Does He Meet the Heinousness Standard?

This is a non-canon story set in its own universe, so it's got it's own heinousness standard. The fact that he's serially wiped out entire planets of life to attain their Energon deposits and is now trying to do the same thing on Earth definitely places him above the heinousness standard, even if we were to compare him to typical Complete Monsters from Transformers like Unicron. And even if we were to strictly apply the aforementioned Offscreen Villainy rule on Megatron, the fact that he's still trying to wipe out all life on Earth is an extraordinary crime that I'd say makes him pass the general heinousness standard anyway. In addition, Megatron's torture of Spiderman is the cherry on top for him.

Final Conclusion

What do you guys think?

Edited by DrUnknown on May 28th 2021 at 10:09:55 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#262146: May 28th 2021 at 11:06:18 AM

Lord YAM and ACW, at the end of Imaginary Numbers, Sarah shoves part of the "cosmic equation" that the cuckoos were using her to activate into Ingrid's mind, which forces out everything else in there. She may not be completely dead or brain-dead, I haven't finished the sequel book, Calculated Risks yet.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#262147: May 28th 2021 at 11:13:37 AM

Ah. In that case, while she probably counts, maybe see if she does anything in the sequel? Hell, she might get a redeeming quality (stranger things have happened; looking at you, Trigon).

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#262148: May 28th 2021 at 11:21:30 AM

Congratulations on Graduating. It truly is a great experience

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

Total posts: 326,048
Top