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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#262103: May 27th 2021 at 6:52:28 PM

[tup] Jason Spec, Owen Davidson, Blackwell Bros, Corinthian

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#262106: May 27th 2021 at 7:09:43 PM

What is the Work

Imaginary Numbers, the ninth novel in the InCryptid series. The main POV character is Sarah Zellaby, a Johrlac or "cuckoo" (a species of sociopathic Backstory Invader telepaths of which she and her adoptive mother Angela are the only two Token Heroic Orcs). Sarah has just spent five years recovering from a telepathic incident that left her a Broken Bird, and is finally heading home to her cousins (including Artie, who she's loved for years). Just as she's finally seeing him after 5 years apart, they're in a car crash and he's briefly comatose. Sarah realizes the crash was deliberately caused by a group of cuckoos working for an unknown goal, and shortly afterwards is approached by one of them, who threatens to Mind Rape her family if she doesn't come quietly. Sarah meets Ingrid, the leader of the hive, and finds out about their plan to use her to tear a hole in reality.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

The candidate is Ingrid, the Big Bad of the novel and Sarah's biological mother. She orchestrates the entire plot to turn Sarah into an Apocalypse Maiden to tear a hole between dimensions with Formulaic Magic, so the cuckoos can find some other world to become an invasive predator species on. This would also have the side effect of destroying Earth and frying Sarah's mind, though apparently her body would still be alive enough that Ingrid planned to use her as a sex doll to breed new super-powerful Johrlac queens. Ingrid also reveals that she had Sarah for the sole purpose of creating a Johrlac queen, and was behind the murder of her Muggle Foster Parents that led to Angela adopting her. She also murdered (or ordered the murders of) the family who lived in the house that the hive randomly chose as a base of operations.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

The cuckoos have Blue-and-Orange Morality in which the only thing that matters is themself, and in rare cases the survival of their entire species. That said, they're perfectly aware that their actions harm humans and other sapients, they just don't care.

Ingrid is pregnant the entire novel, but cuckoos, true to their name, don't do parental care and abandon their babies with Muggle Foster Parents almost as soon as they're born. She doesn't show any concern for her baby beyond bodily harm to herself.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Other villains in the book include Mark, who only helps Ingrid because she threatened his human sister who he came to care for, and he undergoes a partial Heel–Face Turn, helping the protagonists thwart the plot. All the other cuckoos only carried out Ingrid's plan, none of them were the masterminds behind it.

The heroes, Sarah and her friends and family, kill a few cuckoo Mooks, but none of them plot to destroy the world or anything like that.

The only other villain in the series that has tried to destroy the entire world is The Crossroads, which was already approved as a Complete Monster.

Final Verdict?

I believe Ingrid counts as a Complete Monster.

Edited by Opabinia on May 27th 2021 at 10:30:00 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#262107: May 27th 2021 at 7:11:28 PM

By the way, I think it's pretty much official that the PF guys are not being approved.

I'm just happy that the discussion seems to have been resolved with less incivility this time.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to vote.

[up] I'd like more of a detailed comparison of the actions of other villains before I vote...On second thought, sounds like a keeper.

Edit: And just for the heck of it, here's what I don't need to add to the drafts. (In cases where it is possible that the candidate will be approved, it is worthwhile to have a draft just in case.)

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 27th 2021 at 10:21:10 AM

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#262109: May 27th 2021 at 7:13:17 PM

Saying "yes" to Ingrid. That easily seems to meet the standard—for the record, InCryptid doesn't have a way-up-there standard like Dresden Files where every second baddie is a mass-mass murderer. Everything Ingrid does here is solidly past what any other villain besides the Crossroads has done.

Edited by Scraggle on May 27th 2021 at 8:15:11 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#262110: May 27th 2021 at 7:18:01 PM

[tup] First Corinthian, Blackwells and Ingrid

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 27th 2021 at 11:26:36 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#262111: May 27th 2021 at 7:22:09 PM

[tup]to The Corinthian, Blackwells and Ingrid

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
RaynForce58 Since: Apr, 2016
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#262113: May 27th 2021 at 7:35:04 PM

Yes to Ingrid, the Corinthian, the Blackwells and Death. Congrats to my lads where applicable there!

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#262115: May 27th 2021 at 7:40:08 PM

How many [tup] votes should a proposed character have before they can be added to the list?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#262116: May 27th 2021 at 7:47:37 PM

@Opabinia: 5 more [tup] approvals than [tup] declines. Six is a good start. 10 is even better.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#262118: May 27th 2021 at 8:40:30 PM

[tup]Corinthian and Ingrid

It's Spooky Month!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#262120: May 27th 2021 at 9:01:23 PM

[tup]Spector, Davidson, The Blackwells, Corinthian, & Ingrid

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#262121: May 27th 2021 at 9:42:19 PM

[tup] to Jack Blackwell, Patrick Blackwell, the Corinthian, and Ingrid.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#262122: May 27th 2021 at 10:04:03 PM

[tup] Spector, Davidson, The Blackwells, Corinthian, & Ingrid.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#262123: May 28th 2021 at 12:06:48 AM

What happens to Ingrid by the way?

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#262124: May 28th 2021 at 12:53:42 AM

[tup] to the Blackwells, the Corinthian and Ingrid.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#262125: May 28th 2021 at 1:52:06 AM

[tup] Blackwells, Corinthian, Ingrid.

Family Man... isn't that the dude from Hellblazer?


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