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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#261952: May 26th 2021 at 10:06:43 PM

[tup] to Lord Achriman, Thomas Waltham, and Adolf Hitler.

Unfortunately, I'm on a [tdown] for the General Grievous quote, as it doesn't sound heinous enough.

@SkyCat32: I agree with that sentiment and I'm still on my slight [tup] for the duo.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#261953: May 26th 2021 at 10:11:02 PM

An right just to inform you Guys.

The various individual books of the Goosebumps books now have pages of their own thanks to a dedicated project. So I guess its time to Crosswick any that have cms.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#261954: May 26th 2021 at 10:11:33 PM

Yes to Waltham and an army of mecha-Hitler's (this game sounds like the best thing ever)

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#261955: May 26th 2021 at 10:16:01 PM

Indeed a big 'Yes' to Achriman, as well as for Waltham and.....Mecha-Hitler? Yeah, Mecha-Hitler. evil grin I'll also lodge support for the Grievous quote

And now, with the biggest of appreciations for my boy Scraggle bringing me in on this, let's discuss my Serious Sam 4 candidate...

.....words I never thought I'd say [lol]

Who is Howard Brand? What has he done?

An apparent "tough general who doesn't play by the rules", Brand spends most of the game as an apparent ally to Sam and his buddies, using his military status to work with them to track down the legendary Ark and find the Holy Grail—actually an alien artifact—inside, to hopefully turn it against the invading alien forces laying siege to Earth. Along the way, however, he shows a dark willingness to eliminate his own allies or men "for the greater good", and gets one of Sam's friends killed by ordering a premature bomb detonation.

Of course, as soon as the Grail—strangely enough a scepter lol—is found? Brand promptly holds the entire group at gunpoint with his soldiers, claiming the Holy Grail for himself and proudly revealing that he's decided to ally with the alien force of Tah-Um/"Mental" and turn the Grail over to his forces, ensuring that the earth and countless more worlds are wiped clean of all life, and has been working to subvert Sam and his team the whole game. Transformed into a hulking beast by the Grail's power, Brand gleefully proclaims himself to be "The Beast of the Apocalypse! The Lord of Despair! I am the LAST! HUMAN!" before capturing Sam and ordering all of the man's friends be fed to alien drones...but not before personally running through one of Sam's closest partners in the game, Father Mikhail, and insulting his religion as the man dies before him.

As Sam escapes—Brand having planned to turn Sam over to Tah-Um to serve as a pet as a "peace offering"—Brand summons forth the gigantic general of Mental's armies, Ugh-Zan, through a portal to lay siege to Earth. And as Brand recaptures Sam, he smugly attempts to hand both Sam and the Grail over to Ugh-Zan to finally secure his position of power and ensure Brand will be the last human in existence, gleefully looking forward to literally "ending history!"

...........only for Ugh-Zan to showcase just how little Brand impresses him, as he literally flicks Brand away without a second thought and focuses on killing Sam. [lol]

And after Sam defeats Ugh-Zan, Brand—now returned to his normal form—is quickly captured by Sam and his surviving allies, tied to a massive rocket with the phrase "From Earth with Love" graffiti'd on, and sent through the portal to destroy it and whatever of Mental's army is on the other side, Brand ranting and raving to the bitter end that Mental will avenge him and wipe out humanity before it's all over with.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Uhhhhhh....no, lol. Brand seems to be a gruff but ultimately well-intentioned man for most of the game, but the climax fully showcases what a crock of shit it all is and that Brand is truly a narcissistic asshole out to secure his own position of power and leave Earth wide open to be utterly wiped of all life, just so he can gain a position in Mental's army and have the pride of being "the last human!"

His defeat is ultimately a comedic one, but it does nothing to downplay his actions through the game otherwise, especially his murder of Mikhail and being The Quisling.

Heinousness?

Mental and members of his army—namely Achriman—set the standard high as hell, but...Brand? Is just a normal, human scumbag who decides to throw his lot in with aliens before they even properly ally with him. On his own merits, he betrays and gets several of Sam's friends killed, personally murders Mikhail, plans to throw Sam over to Mental to be kept as a slave, and all while scheming to assist Mental's armies in any way he can to bring about the genocide of humanity and countless other worlds...and then he just gets dismissed as the nobody he is by Ugh-Zan when he tries to actually solidify this alliance.

Final Verdict?

Happy Keeper

Edited by Ravok on May 26th 2021 at 11:09:38 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#261956: May 26th 2021 at 10:19:22 PM

[tup]Brand

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#261957: May 26th 2021 at 10:23:00 PM

Yes to Brand.

I don't want to inundate the thread, so I'm gonna wait a few hours to post my Castlevania post. I think we're gonna like this, though.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#261958: May 26th 2021 at 10:24:14 PM

Yes to Brand

Was Street Fighter: Legend of Chun-Li movie been brought up before? I'm checking the film version of M. Bison to see if he counts for this trope in it.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#261959: May 26th 2021 at 10:24:59 PM

Yes to Ahriman and Brand.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#261960: May 26th 2021 at 10:25:01 PM

Yes to Brand and...

Oooh, I'll have a post from Sandman coming up after a few others and Ip Man

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#261961: May 26th 2021 at 10:30:13 PM

[tup] Brand

[up][up][up] Bison, sadly, doesn’t count. He’s shown to love his daughter at the end.

It's Spooky Month!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#261962: May 26th 2021 at 10:33:56 PM

[up] Well, guess that's one potential CM gone. Gotta hate those last-minute redeeming qualities.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 26th 2021 at 2:02:05 PM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#261963: May 26th 2021 at 10:41:36 PM

[tup] to the Serious Sam and Golgo 13 duos

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#261964: May 26th 2021 at 11:52:24 PM

If the Grievous quote is not heinous enough, then perhaps I will include the rest of his villainous speech towards the Jedi.

"Listen to me, Jedi. I do not care about your politics. I do not care about your Republic. I only live to see you die! But death will not come so easily for Master Koth. I will make him suffer endlessly, because I know that is more painful for you all!"

He also does an Evil Laugh at the end, but I'm not sure how to put it in naturally with the rest of the quote.

Edited by Shadao on May 26th 2021 at 11:56:35 AM

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#261965: May 27th 2021 at 12:04:58 AM

[tup] Achriman, Waltham, Mech-Hitler, Brand

[up][up][up] Bison's love for his daughter isn't a last-minute redeeming feature. I've seen that movie twice (what? It was on HBO several years ago) and it's a recurring plot point on how much his daughter means to him.

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up] Being a big Gamebooks nerd myself, I actually owned several entries of the Give Yourself Goosebumps books myself back when I was 9. Maybe I could cough up a few candidates... if they're available online on PDF

Edited by RobertTYL on May 28th 2021 at 3:08:25 AM

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#261968: May 27th 2021 at 1:28:13 AM

[tup] to Shredder, Lord Achriman, Waltham, Mecha-Hitler(!) and Brand.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#261969: May 27th 2021 at 1:43:37 AM

Yes to Lord Achriman, Waltham, Hitler and Brand

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#261970: May 27th 2021 at 2:05:04 AM

You weren't kidding about him being a Doom Looking mother hecker - specifically the 2016 game and sequel. [tup] Lord Achriman and, while I'm at it, Howard Brand.

and also a happy and dignified yes to Brainler the Mecha Hitler.

Yes to the longer Grievous quote as well.

Also can confirm Scraggle's got a good one lined up.

Edited by PolarPhantom on May 27th 2021 at 2:06:02 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#261971: May 27th 2021 at 2:41:22 AM

[tup] Howard Brand. Now, this one I didn't see coming.

Also, looking forward to the Netflix Castlevania discussion.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#261972: May 27th 2021 at 2:56:37 AM

Looking at the character page, I too think I know who the Castlevania candidate is.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#261973: May 27th 2021 at 3:09:41 AM

So excited for Castlevania discussion. Love that show.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#261974: May 27th 2021 at 3:34:39 AM

[tup] to Lord Achriman, Thomas Waltham, Mecha-Hitler and Howard Brand.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#261975: May 27th 2021 at 3:41:20 AM

Dayum, we've been busy while I was asleep, haven't we?

[tup] to the Serious Sam and Golgo 13 candidates.


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