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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#261026: May 21st 2021 at 7:40:26 AM

[tup] to Stefan

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
DolphZ Since: Mar, 2019
#261027: May 21st 2021 at 7:55:20 AM

Hey guys this is gonna be an odd question but I have done some research and discovered Zamasu (from Dragon Ball Super) has different crimes and a different personality in the manga compared to the anime. His crimes aren't exactly as bad but his personality is FAR more evil in the manga.

I do feel as though he's different enough to get a different write-up not he Monster page but what do you guys think. Go for it or nay?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#261028: May 21st 2021 at 8:01:58 AM

[up] As long as he's still bad ENOUGH, he could probably get a separate entry. Keep in mind that Frieza and Moro are in the manga.

Slight re-potholing and tweaking:

  • Young Justice: William "Billy" Hayes, better known as Harm from this initially light-hearted comic series, was a teenage supervillain who was also a complete sociopath. Adopted by loving parents, Harm initially terrified his adoptive younger sister Greta and her fears were proven right when Harm murdered her in her bathtub to seal a demonic pact and give himself super powers. His goal was to become the world's greatest murderer and he decided to hunt down and destroy all the kid heroes before moving on to the big leagues. He captured Red Tornado and reprogrammed him as a suicide bomber against Pope John Paul II to make a name for himself in the supervillain community. When his father, realizing what he was, killed Harm with a gunshot to the back, Harm's spirit later returned. He possessed his father and used his body to enact more evil deeds, none more enjoyable to him than screwing with Greta, now the ghostly heroine Secret, by making her think her father never truly loved her. When defeated, Harm, for sheer spite, forced his father to throw himself into one of the fire-pits of Apokolips while Harm possessed him to kill them both.

To:

  • Young Justice: William "Billy" Hayes, better known as Harm, was a teenage supervillain and a complete sociopath. Adopted by loving parents, Harm initially terrified his adoptive younger sister Greta, her fears proven right when Harm murdered her in her bathtub to seal a demonic pact and give himself superpowers. His goal was to become the world's greatest murderer, and he decided to hunt down and destroy all the kid heroes before moving on to the big leagues. He captured Red Tornado and reprogrammed him as a suicide bomber against Pope John Paul II to make a name for himself in the supervillain community. When his father, realizing what he was, killed Harm with a gunshot to the back, Harm's spirit later returned. He possessed his father and used his body to enact more evil deeds, none more enjoyable to him than screwing with Greta, now the ghostly heroine Secret, by making her think her father never truly loved her. When defeated, Harm, for sheer spite, forced his father to throw himself into one of the fire-pits of Apokolips while Harm possessed him to kill them both.

Edited by ACW on May 21st 2021 at 11:04:00 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#261029: May 21st 2021 at 8:07:02 AM

Good freaking God. Based on the EP, [tup] to Stefan. Considering Gary Busey and Holly Hunter almost made love in one scene in The Firm, may be par for the course (that said, he was much younger in 1993).

Gary Busey now a Played/Opposed one? If I don’t add him, someone else can feel free to.

He definitely is for the record. I mean I would know that given I put up Krill and someone else did his character in Drop Zone after all.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 21st 2021 at 8:10:15 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#261033: May 21st 2021 at 9:21:40 AM

[tup] to the William "Billy" Hayes/Harm rewrite.

Got another candidate.

What's the Work?

Mind Blown is a Made-for-TV sci-fi action movie set 20 Minutes in the Future, in which the setting features telekinetics, powerful humans who have a variety of different powers, usually pertaining to the elements. In the film, there are only five, in which all of them have been recruited in an American program called Project Mindblown that would manipulate weather patterns across the globe and improve the livelihoods for others like creating rain to stop droughts. The film specifically follows Jennifer Gaines, a telekinetic who acts as a seer, where she coordinates the other telekinetics' powers and has, well, telekinetic powers on her own. However, she comes to doubt whether Project Mindblown is as altruistic as it sounds, so she teams up with a sixth telekinetic, Adam, who was unaccounted for by the government. Ultimately, her suspicions are proven right...

Who is Colonel Clayton and What Has He Done?

Colonel Clayton is the head of Project Mindblown, in which he secretly harbors a God Complex and plans on exploiting the telekinetics' powers to throw the entire world into anarchy and establish himself as its ruler. In the experiment, the telekinetics are connected to a machine where their powers can be coordinated by Jennifer, but he's been secretly copying the frequencies for their powers so that he could use them without the telekinetics. To test the progress of the project, he directs the telekinetics to use their weather powers on a seemingly empty test site, but actually manipulates them into unleashing their power on a small, but populated town. Ultimately, a whole slew of natural disasters are unleashed, including tornadoes, earthquakes, and lightning storms. As a result, 700 people are killed and Clayton only stops the attack when his superior, General Benjamin White, orders him to stop the test. Fortunately for Clayton, no one but Jenifer suspects his true intentions and just believes that it was an accident or even blames the attack on Jennifer.

When Jennifer escapes the facility and meets with Adam to reveal the project's true plan, Clayton frames her as a terrorist to turn everyone against her and while General White agrees to detain her by sending a small task force, he orders the project to be shut down, starting to get suspicious of Clayton at this point. Clayton seems to oblige, but he secretly orchestrates even more attacks on larger cities, wiping out all of San Francisco and Los Angeles to kill millions. After these attacks, Clayton sends the other telekinetics and the strike force to murder Jennifer and Adam, blaming them for the crimes.

However, Clayton's plan fails, in which one of the telekinetics, Ruben Sanchez, defects to Jennifer's side and the trio move to his base. There, they take out the guards, but quickly discover that Clayton has orchestrated yet another attack on Washington D.C., planning to kill even more people. At this point, General White has discovered Clayton's treachery and deems him a terrorist, which Clayton doesn't care about and madly declares that he will create a "new order." Eventually, the trio of telekinetics confront Clayton, who has copied all of the telekinetics' powers to use them himself. Clayton tries using his powers to kill them, but the trio escapes and Clayton ends up destroying his entire base, burying him underneath it.

Does He Have Any Mitigating Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Initially, he presents himself as a well-meaning commander who has the United States' interests at heart, but the film clearly establishes that he set up Project Mindblown to attain more power for himself and later betrays the United States when he is prepared to enact his full scheme of throwing the world into chaos. Otherwise, no mitigating qualities or Freudian Excuse in sight.

Does He Meet the Heinousness Standard?

It's explicitly stated that he's killed millions of citizens as a direct result of the natural disasters he creates. Meanwhile, he's a relatively minor military leader who wields little influence in the military structure, where he only has a single base, a handful of guards, a small team of soldiers, and two telekinetics willing to work with him. While he doesn't do anything spectacular, the fact that he attains such a high body count shows that he's punching pretty heavily for his resource level, so I'd say he passes the heinousness standard. As for competition, the other antagonists are Rick Lee and Clive Jones, two other telekinetics who work with Clayton, but they don't do anything that comes close to the body count of Clayton.

Final Conclusion

What do you guys think?

Edited by DrUnknown on May 21st 2021 at 9:21:53 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#261034: May 21st 2021 at 9:26:26 AM

[tup]Clayton

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#261035: May 21st 2021 at 9:32:44 AM

When I'm paid, I always follow my job through.

[tup] Angel Eyes

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#261036: May 21st 2021 at 9:46:04 AM

Yes to Tyron Clayton (his full name according to IMDB).

Incidentally, I don't know if they're connected, but there's another film where the same actor plays a Col. Clayton.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#261037: May 21st 2021 at 9:48:26 AM

My wanting a CM by Danny Trejo is leading me to break a vow upcoming....lemme prep for this EP.

Oh, and yea to Tyron there.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#261038: May 21st 2021 at 9:59:07 AM

[tup]Clayton

[up]breaking a vow in order to get up Danny Trejo?

BTW, I’m finally out of high school

Edited by nwotyzal on May 21st 2021 at 10:00:10 AM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#261039: May 21st 2021 at 10:01:52 AM

Yeah to Clayton.

[up] Congrats!

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on May 21st 2021 at 1:06:01 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#261040: May 21st 2021 at 10:05:09 AM

[tup] Clayton

[up][up] Congrats, dude! Now you just have college to go through.

It's Spooky Month!
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#261041: May 21st 2021 at 10:05:17 AM

@ACW: Ah, thank you for pointing out the first name.

@nwotyzal: Congratulations on making it through the high school year.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#261042: May 21st 2021 at 10:06:19 AM

Congrats nwot.

Also, holy crap I feel old now [lol]

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#261043: May 21st 2021 at 10:14:43 AM

[tup] Angel Eyes, Stefan, Clayton

High school for me was 2007. tongue

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#261044: May 21st 2021 at 10:16:45 AM

[tup] to Colonel Clayton.

If it makes you feel better ACW, I first started feeling old when was just past 18.

Okay following on our collaboration here is my first candidate from The Magnus Archives, Maxwell Rayner. Apologies at it being quite long, he gets up to quite a lot.

Who Is he:

Officially the founder and leader of the People’s Church of the Divine Host and the head of Outer Bay Shipping, thus by extension the master of Ny-Ålesund in Norway, the most northernmost human settlement on Earth, Maxwell Rayner is truthfully the Avatar and chief servant of the Dark.

One of the oldest and most powerful Avatars to exist, Rayner’s service of his dark master stretches back through the centuries.

What Does He Do:

Raymer’s origins begin in the 1700’s. John Flamsteed the first Astronomer Royal grew to have an intense rivalry with his former student Edmond Halley. Flamsteed gave Halley the mocking nickname “Reimers” after Nicolaus Reimers the arch-rival of Tycho Brahe.

In an attempt to destroy Halley’s good name at court Flamsteed took to following Halley hoping to uncover his secrets. However, what he discovered went beyond his wildest dreams, as it turned out Halley was in fact a member of a cult of worshipers of the Dark who practiced “Pagan Rituals” (we’re thankfully spared any outright descriptions, but the context implies its bad) in the woods around a hidden pool connected to its essence.

One night before the others arrived Flamsteed confronted Halley, who tried to stab him to death. Overpowering him Flamsteed managed to drown Halley within the dark pool. Flamsteed escaped before the others arrived and took the body away, however, upon returning to Royal Society to his horror he discovered something that looked exactly like Halley still in attendance only know with two cloudy white eyes, who proceed to thank him for his “rebirth”.

Getting quickly to work he attempted to use the 1715 eclipse to perform a ritual that would give the world to the Dark. However, the ritual failed. Taking Flamsteed’s mockery as his new name, to extend his existence Rayner took to the process of acquiring a series of children, officially either as a ward or a servant to help with his supposed blindness. When his present body was on the verge of giving out, he would then transfer his essence into the child, killing them and giving him a new healthy host and their remaining lifespan.

Rayner spent the centuries accumulating wealth and power, all in preparation so that he would not fail upon his next attempt (due to their nature Rituals require specific circumstances to be completed, one’s that often aren’t available for centuries between windows).

The next specific event we know about occurred in 1864, where now possessing as an African antiques dealer Rayner already having his eye on creating a powerbase in polar regions where the nights could last months, was focused on acquiring all information he could on the subject, including a series of artefacts supposedly recovered from John Franklins lost expiation.

Outbid at an auction for Franklin’s logbooks to Doctor Algernon Moss, when Moss refused to let him have the books (namely due to how rude his demands were) a furious Rayner responded by summoning a spectre from Moss’s childhood fears, a beast of the darkness the Sandman. He then sent it to imprison the poor Doctor in eternal suffocating darkness, with Moss only managing to escape due remembering the story and forcibly rubbing its Sand into his eyes, agonisingly costing him his sight.

It’s also implied the Rayner had a hand in Wilfred Owen’s encounter with a beast/avatar of the Slaughter, the Piper, during World War One.

By the late 1980’s, secured in wealth, power and connections built up through the centuries Rayner carried on the spread of the People’s Church of the Divine Host, ensuring chapters began in other countries around the world. In 1990, one member of the church Lynette Montauk attempted to leave (why is never revealed though its implied Rayner may have chosen her seven year old daughter Julia as his next host) thus Maxwell “silenced” her.

Seeing an opportunity Maxwell contacted Lynette’s husband Robert Montauk, a police detective and secret servant of the Hunt (the hunt being the most flexible power, just about that can be described in any way as a hunt being enough to serve it) lying that Lynette was still alive but if he wanted to see her again he would take out his will.

Thus forcing Robert to quit the police, at his direction Rayner had Robert abduct and ritualistic murder people, each murder being used to empower his agenda as well as lead to the creation of a particularly horrible monster The Still and Lightless Beast. This carried on for five years, during which time Robert killed forty people, each time carving out their heart.

Eventually Robert found out the truth, and turned on Rayner, killing several of his followers. In response Rayner sent the Lightless Beast to kill Robert and Julia. Unfortunately for him whilst Robert had committed the sacrifices to the Dark, simply hunting the people was enough to please his master. Empowered by the Hunt, Robert was able to destroy the beast.

Thus whilst Robert was arrested for as Britain’s most prolific serial killer, Rayner work was drastically set back. Disappearing from the public view, his cult supposedly disbanding instead they went underground. Though it took them seven years before they were able to restore the Lightless Beast. Afterwards Rayner went to visit Robert in prison just to mock him and that night had the Lightless Beast kill him in his cell.

Now back on track Maxwell new that the next eclipse was soon approaching, and turned his attention to Manuela Dominguez, a physicist studying Dark matter. Convinced he could use the perception of it to fulfil his long sort agenda, Rayner introduced her to the People’s Church, knowing that she had already been touched by the Dark. Once she was fully sold, Rayner tasked her with constructing the “Dark Sun” to act as a focal point of their focus, from which the purest blackness would pour engulfing all the light in the universe.

The only issue was for it to work it would have be constructed in outer space. Thus Rayner approached the Lucas Family, servants of the Lonely, and Simon Fairchild, servant of the Vast (who also had their eye on using the fears of space to their agenda). Persuading them to pool their resources and construct a privately owned space station Daedalus.

In 2007 it was finally completed and launched with a crew of three astronauts including Manuela. Whilst the other two carried out their own brutal experimentations on the other, in secret Rayner had also ensured a forth person was smuggled aboard, a kidnapped Nyctophobe sealed up in a box to act as the battery for Manuela’s experiments. After months, she finally succeeded in creating the “Dark Sun”. Carrying on her experiments to ensure its stability and that she could secure it, by the end “no amount of soundproofing could hide his screams”. Her victim was thrown out of airlock and Manuela brought her creation back to earth.

Now in his possession Rayner had the Dark Sun moved to Ny-Ålesund, and carried on preparations for the impending eclipse. In 2010 he assigned his follower Vardaan Darvish to carry out numerous other ritualistic sacrifices, operating out an office space in Manchester that he’d rented through on of his numerous shell corporations. The operation was destroyed when Darvish was killed by Julia Montauk, but Rayner carried on past this setback.

Convinced he was on the verge of victory Rayner sent Manuela to the Magnus Institute in 2014, supposedly to give Elias (really Jonah Magnus who Maxwell had known back in the 1800’s) one last chance to abandon the Eye as the Dark was about to take over, but mostly to just gloat about his upcoming victory.

Thus on March 13th 2015 Rayner was finally ready to bring about 300 years of planning to bring about the Extinguished Sun. He had his followers all around the world prepared to unleash “a week of horrors”, with thousands of people imprisoned to be sacrificed. Carrying out the ritual amongst his closet and most trusted in Norway, it began with Rayner slaughtering the Lightless Beast to use its blood to power the Dark Sun.

Throughout the week the slowly killed the victims one by one, each one further empower it, where upon 20th during the eclipse it would finally burst allowing the Dark to spill out to consume the universe.

However, whilst it came very close to succeeding in the end the ritual failed (as unbeknown to Rayner or anyone else until Gertrude Robinson cracked it) it simply wasn’t possible to only summon one power, their existences being too closely interlinked. Many of the cultists died in the aftermath, and many more were left disillusioned.

Rayner himself was spiritually broken in disbelief. Convinced they must have been sabotaged he travelled with the remaining handful of his cult back to Britain, leaving Manuela behind to guard the Dark Sun. However, having used up the majority is power during the ritual Rayner’s body was rapidly decaying, and due to being convinced he was on the verge of victory he hadn’t prepared a new host.

Desperate he had his followers kidnap twelve year old Callum Brody. But Jonah Magnus seeing an opportunity to remove Rayner from the chessboard once and for all tipped off the police that they were hiding out a factory he owned.

Rayner was in the middle of trying to transfer his essence into Brody when the armed police stormed the factory. His body was shot dead after his essence had left it but before it reached Brody, left without a host Rayner’s power was broken and his long life finally ended with him dying in the light.

However, as a final consequence of his actions whilst spared possession Callum was still touched by the dark, and the trauma of experience led to him growing colder and crueller to his peers. This coupled together led to him becoming the Avatar of the Dark in the post changed world, specifically the one who supervised the tortures of the children.

Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:

Nothing that really holds up. Rayner is certainly charming enough to enthral people into his cult, and has a superficial politeness to his nature. But its entire skin deep, and apart from recruitment something he only puts on when he’s mocking people.

Rayner’s entire motivation is his desire to bring the Dark into this world, partially to destroy the light and partially for all the rewards he will receive in the new world. He does have a pseudo-religious fanaticism towards the Dark (or at the very least uses it recruit his followers).

Rayner is admittedly more pragmatic than some avatars, with most of what he does being part of some goal. However, his goals utterly monstrous and even past that the guy’s got a petty and arrogant streak that’s a mile wide.

Rayner likewise never really shows any actual care for his followers. He’s certainly charming enough when recruiting them and he trusts them enough to carry out important assignments without his input. But the guy never seems particularly bothered when they die.

He’s devastated when his ritual fails, but that’s mostly down to the fact he’s spent 300 years preparing for this and has absolutely no idea what went wrong.

Now there is the little matter that it’s never outright confirmed whether Halley became Rayner (becoming an Avatar requires a death of their previous self) or if one of the Dark’s creations was possessing his dead body, but either way it’s not particularly important. Accept for a few animalistic one’s, creations of the powers are shown to have free will.

Heinous Standard:

Jonah Mangus might set the standard, but honestly Rayner is the silver medallist. The guy has a body count that is multitudes higher than everyone else in the entire show. Whilst his ritual isn’t as outright sadistic as the Unknowing, in terms of sheer numbers it still drastically stands out from the crowd.

And that’s not going into all his other crimes. Rayner is responsible for nearly every crime committed by the Dark followers.

Conclusion:

Yeah even in the series where most of the major antagonist wants to end the world for their respective master, Rayner still drastically stands out from the pack.

Still what do you think?

Edited by MGD107 on May 21st 2021 at 10:19:39 AM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#261045: May 21st 2021 at 10:19:56 AM

Killing children and stealing their bodies? That’s a yeah from me.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#261046: May 21st 2021 at 10:26:32 AM

Manga!Zamasu doesn't need a new entry, personality wise he is just as petty and narcissistic, if not more but his crimes aren't really worse, as he lacks the whole merging with the multiverse and killing everyone part at the end, though he does explicitly state that he plans to kill mortals in other timelines after he's done with Trunks.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#261047: May 21st 2021 at 10:26:39 AM

Anyway to either trim the EP or give a summary of his actions?

Also, free will or not, is it ever explained why he became evil? Was his human form evil (or at least show any red flags)?

Keet96 Good Hunter from Anor Londo Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Good Hunter
#261048: May 21st 2021 at 10:26:51 AM

[tup] Rayner. Wouldn't like to run into him in a dark alley... [tup] Clayton.

Edited by Keet96 on May 21st 2021 at 6:27:37 PM

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#261049: May 21st 2021 at 10:36:21 AM

ACW: Well I tried, you have to understand Rayner is one of the major figures of one of the most major powers. Whilst he technically dies before the show starts, his influence is pretty vast and he's responsible for a lot.

Basically he's responsible for thousands of deaths, human experimentation, forcing an innocent man to be his private hitman, repeated child murder to possess their bodies and attempting to bring about the end of the world twice.

Um yes, he's evil cause he wants to bring The Dark into the world partially cause he has a pseudo religious reverence for it (such as considering darkness the natural state of existence) and cause of the massive rewards he will receive when his master controls existence.

If we assume that Rayner is Edmond Halley, he was already part of a cult of Dark worshipers before his transformation who engaged in dark rituals and tried to murder the man who caught him.

If we assume he's not, then it doesn't really change his motivation for doing it.

Edited by MGD107 on May 21st 2021 at 10:43:19 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#261050: May 21st 2021 at 10:38:34 AM

Yeah, I thought about manga Zamasu, but the only different crime he does is stabbing and mocking Gowasu when he tries to reason with him. Not really worth a different entry.


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