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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#260677: May 18th 2021 at 12:34:34 PM

As we discussed, happy yes to Han evil grin

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#260679: May 18th 2021 at 12:43:03 PM

[tup]Han (always love it when we get classics here)

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#260680: May 18th 2021 at 12:46:18 PM

[up][up]Oh plenty did. Mortal kombat was inspired by it for one. Its super influential.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260681: May 18th 2021 at 12:48:27 PM

Too bad we never saw Bruce against Bolo sad

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#260682: May 18th 2021 at 12:48:58 PM

Late here but 'Yes' to Luft and a big one to Han, as we discussed I absolutely view his outrage at O'Hara's "treachery" as nothing but posturing for the sake of his recruiting tournament...not 5 minutes later he pulls out dirty tricks to overwhelm Williams, later breaks the rules of his own tournament, and is called out by Lee on his own "disgracing" of the Shaolin temple at the end. Nasty bastard, with a moment of false posturing

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#260684: May 18th 2021 at 1:04:36 PM

[up][up] Our failure to recognize Han's treachery for the list has disgraced us

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#260688: May 18th 2021 at 1:11:24 PM

[tup] Han, from Lee’s final movie. Nice job!

It's Spooky Month!
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#260690: May 18th 2021 at 1:15:31 PM

Time for an EP that took me for bloody ever! I apologize for the length of this one, I had to get through five different audio dramas.

Big Finish Doctor Who is a series of audio dramas about the expanded universe of Doctor Who and include characters of all kinds from the series’ run, as well as further adventures with existing Doctors. The one I’m looking at today is I, Davros: a five part audio drama that explores Davros’ backstory and how he created the Daleks, as well as how he eventually regained leadership over them.

I don’t really need to say exactly what character I’m EP’ing, do I?

Just to be clear: I, Davros appears to be Canon Discontinuity in the main franchise now, as a later episode of Doctor Who also explored his backstory and directly contradicted the events of the drama, so I think it’s fairly safe to consider this incarnation of Davros separate from his TV counterpart now.

What Has He Done?

Davros, of course, grew up on the war racked planet of Skaro among the Kaleds. Davros’ adopted father, Nasgard, was an incredibly important military general but was often absent, and Davros grew up coddled by his overbearing mother Calcula and had a mostly antagonistic relationship with his sister Yarvell. He was also tutored by a man called Magrantine.

One day Nasgard was blown up by a bomb planted by Calcula, who did not want Davros to go into the military as Nasgard wished. Being taken to a “safe” location by Magrantine (who also showed him his laboratory in the process), Margrantine then revealed that he was going to try and kill Davros to take revenge for Nasgard having his son shot dead. Davros manipulated the man into sparing him but as soon as they returned to the laboratory he locked him inside his own radiation chamber and then subjected him to an extreme amount of radiation, which had the effect of transforming Magrantine into a monstrosity that lived in constant agony. For sadism and interest, Davros decided to keep the man trapped there for years and carry out some early tests on him. Liking the idea of experimenting on people, he also abducted the remains of Major Brogan, a soldier who was having a love affair with Yarvell, to fuse them together with Magrantine.

Upon meeting his actual father (the man having had an affair with Calcula, who then passed Davros off as Nasgard’s), Davros unhesitatingly gunned him down for “threatening” his mother only to then reveal he simply didn’t want the man to threaten his future scientific career.

Several years later, Davros for a time worked a boring, painful job as a weapons manufacturer. However, his fortunes changed when he was sent on a mission into enemy Thal territory. Davros located their latest weapons, ultimately blowing up one of the military bases and killing dozens of Thals in the process. Usurping command from the expedition leader, Brint, Davros came face to face with Magrantine again when they attempted to return to the Kaled base. Gunning him down, Davros mocked Magrantine in his final moments, making sure that all the man could feel was nothing but hate for Davros for what he turned him into. Davros then abandoned Brint to a Fate Worse than Death after he was eaten alive by a mutant plant and partially digested but still alive and in agony. He also killed his friend Reston upon him becoming injured, losing his respect for him in the process when Reston said that he wanted to die to escape the war, leading to Davros cruelly ranting about how he “doesn’t need people like him.”

Upon returning to the city and realising that Yarvell betrayed him by informing the Thal’s of the expedition, Davros was uncaring when Calcula murdered her by drowning her in their swimming pool. Davros eagerly secured her remains afterwards and waxed lyrically about the biological weapons he would create out of her corpse and takes evident amusement in her making posthumous contributions to science despite her hostility to it, before vowing that he will never let friendship or love interfere with his future goals.

Davros is then promoted to the scientific core and soon becomes the head of the division. Whilst inventing all manner of horrific weapons to use against the Kaleds,he also became interested in inventing a new form of life that could aid in his quest for the total extermination of the Thals and...you see where this is going, I hope?

Many years later, Davros is summoned to a council meeting underground due to his overspending in the science division. When the meeting was invaded by a Thal assassin Davros and Calcula horrifically killed them by reactivating the magnetic field on the assassin’s parachute, which resulted in the luckless individual being sucked into the core of the planet...with a few yards of concrete in the way. He then confiscated the remains for testing.

Massively excited upon discovering that the remains were mutating, Davros used it to try and create a creature that could withstand the hostile environment of Skaro. During the interim, he also attended a demonstration of a new weapon he created, using it to breach the walls of a Thal city which resulted in the slaughter of hundreds (including children) at the hands of Kaled soldiers.

Upon learning that Fenn (an opportunistic Kaled who was enlisted by the Supremo to stop Davros’s research and kill Calcula) has taken his mother hostage, he rushed to the scene, appearing at first to be concerned only to then reveal he’d rather not lose a valuable resource. Fenn takes his mother to Davros’s laboratory and begins destroying all the research Davros has conducted. Unfortunately, Calcula is able to turn the tables on him and infects the both of them with a lethal amount of radiation. They then begin to turn into horrific creatures. Coming to the scene, Davros is not even slightly upset. Seeing the mutations in his mother, he giddily notes what is occurring on her body and basks in it’s potential. After Shan, his Love Interest, tells him that they can undo the process Davros coldly informs her that that is like asking him to unfry an egg. Even as his mother writhes in agony, Davros continued to wax lyrical about the mutations. Upon saying goodbye as she passes away, Davros is slightly sad and reflective...for two seconds. He then immediately begins studying her remains.

His study complete, Davros then decides to further his research through yet more horrific means. Finding pregnant women, Davros injected the foetuses with a horrific dose of the radioactive compounds that mutated Fenn and Calcula. The baby’s were born pretty much immediately after the injection with horrendous defects, and killed the mothers in most cases.

Shan, expressing concern for him, returned and revealed that the Supremo (the ultimate ruler of the Kaleds) was responsible for his mother’s death. Davros again seems sad...only to them dismiss her death completely and say that it matters not. He then returns to admiring the “babies” and reveals he has removed all that makes them empathetic.

Confronting the Supremo, Davros blackmailed him into providing unlimited funding and no opposition for his scientific endeavours. He annexes the scientific division from the council and tells the Supremo to blame everything on councillor Valron, a known peace advocate, and his associates, resulting in all of them being executed. Discovering that Shan is also an associate of his and advocates for peace, Davros sells her out to the Supremo and has her killed as well.

Many years later, Davros continued with his highly unethical experiments. However a raid on his facilities by the Thal resulted in his capture and the death of his entire scientific team. Being retrieved by the morally bankrupt Lieutenant Nyder, Davros hatched a plan to speed up the mutation of the Kaled people. Calling a meeting together, Davros demanded that all of the Kaled children that are currently alive be given to him in his scientific dome. Upon the Supremo’s horrified refusal, Davros betrayed all of them by secretly having their anti-radiation tablets poisoned with microscopic bombs, which he then triggered during the next council meeting, resulting in the Supremo and every single person present being turned inside out. Davros then used Nyder to confiscate all of the children and forcibly converted them into mutants. When Ludella, a woman who worked for the Supremo, begged for her son back, Davros sadistically placed her into the enclosure with the mutants and had her eaten alive by her own son, laughingly noting how glad he is to see her again. Shortly following this, he creates the first Dalek prototype from the live body of a Thal spy.

Finally, the story cuts to many years later (following the episode “Revelation Of The Daleks” in the TV series canon) after he was taken captive and is placed on trial by his own creations. A woman called Lareen makes contact with him and offers him a chance at redemption, to which Davros responds by laughing in her face. Sensing her better nature, Davros tricks her into thinking he is going to reform so that he can escape. She gives him a fatal poison (called Movellan) which he can use to destroy all of the Daleks in one go. Seeming to consider it, Davros eventually uses it to simply blackmail all of the Daleks into making him leader again, whilst betraying Lareen. Davros laughs at her naivety and gullibility, sarcastically thanking her for providing the means for his “redemption” and then has her killed. Impressing all of the Daleks with his impassioned speech and ruthlessness, Davros ends the series triumphant and back on top.

Heinous Standard?

It’s Davros. Worst in the story and one of the most ridiculously heinous in all of Doctor Who, with mass killings, child torture/experimentation as well as (eventually) designs to conquer the universe itself and kill anyone in the way all par for the course. Honestly the audio series makes him even worse than his canonical counterpart in some ways, as his Would Hurt a Child tendencies are shown far more explicitly and in depth, and his sadism at points is arguably even greater. Easily surpasses it.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Davros, oh Davros. You love subverting this like no one's business.

To be quick: Every single relationship he forms, be it family or friend, is eventually subverted or destroyed utterly. He doesn’t care about his father’s death, openly uses the remains of his mother and sister for his experiments, betrays his Love Interest and has her killed without a flicker of remorse and casts aside every friend he has, outright killing Reston whilst ranting about how he means nothing to him and then forgetting Nyder completely after his death.

Even his seeming moments of vulnerability or private pain are either shown to be acts of manipulation or are subverted moments later. To give an example: At one point he has a nostalgic dream of being by a lake with his Mother and Sister long after they are both dead. Davros seems quite emotional in the dream...and then dismisses it upon waking up, sneering about how such dreams and thoughts are nothing but a weakness.

Even the ending, despite it being a firm case of Redemption Rejection, is an example. Lareen is convinced that Davros was at least tempted for a moment to use the poison to end the daleks and reform, a charge to which Davros noticeably doesn’t deny...and then sneers about how it matters not and that he is the true ruler of the daleks, and will go on to conquer and slaughter everyone in his wake.

So all in all? Nothing that isn’t subverted completely. Pass.

Conclusion?

A hearty yes.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on May 19th 2021 at 9:06:56 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#260691: May 18th 2021 at 1:20:56 PM

And a happy yes to Big Finish Davros!

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#260693: May 18th 2021 at 1:24:17 PM

[tup] Mr Han whom led to many, many such villains taking after him.

Yes to BF Davros as well.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#260694: May 18th 2021 at 1:24:27 PM

It's Davros. [tup] to him, nuff said.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#260695: May 18th 2021 at 1:27:14 PM

[tup] Belial.

[tup] John Mills.

[tup] Han.

[tup] Darvos.

Also getting my covid shot tonight.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#260696: May 18th 2021 at 1:27:33 PM

[tup]Davros (My favourite doctor who villain)

Btw he was based on Mekon from Dan Dare. Their are apparently two adpataions of the story. 1 by grant morrison and another by ennis. Wonder if mekon is worth looking into from their.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260700: May 18th 2021 at 1:51:46 PM

Yes to Davros, though this one doesn't seem as omnicidal.

He also appears in Big Finish Doctor Who 048 Davros.


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