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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#260201: May 15th 2021 at 8:20:06 AM

Oh. Then why does the DC Extended Universe have a Monster page?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#260202: May 15th 2021 at 8:21:52 AM

It shouldn't, it got made by someone who doesn't post here. Luckily, they didn't make any changes to the YMMV pages, so it can just go on the cut-list

Also, I think I'll go with a [tup] for Terry. The sexual humiliation he makes his victims suffer puts him just barely over for me. [tup] for Kozlow as well.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 15th 2021 at 11:33:55 AM

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#260203: May 15th 2021 at 8:25:06 AM

Happy birthday Austin! Also, no to Terry.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260204: May 15th 2021 at 8:29:31 AM

The YMMV for the DCEU needs to be reverted back though.

RK, four ways you can tell that page hasn't been approved:

  • Not indexed
  • No spoiler warning
  • The header doesn't even link to the franchise.
  • No page quote.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#260205: May 15th 2021 at 8:29:38 AM

They did add it to Live-Action Films which I reverted. I have made a few Monster pages myself but I always come to the thread first for approval.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on May 15th 2021 at 8:30:12 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260206: May 15th 2021 at 8:31:33 AM

True, and the quotes sometimes take time.

The fact that there's no spoiler warning and no link on the header are dead giveaways though.

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#260207: May 15th 2021 at 8:32:13 AM

Oh, alright. Also, Stanford and Mabel Pines should be linked to Bill Cipher's draft, given that they have their own pages.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260208: May 15th 2021 at 8:33:53 AM

I'll take care of that. Stanford's the Author, right?

Edited by ACW on May 15th 2021 at 11:40:36 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#260209: May 15th 2021 at 8:51:17 AM

Also, just noticed that no one had taken The Forever Purge yet, so future and I are going to be taking that one

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#260210: May 15th 2021 at 8:52:39 AM

Anybody else seen Sea of Love?

@STAR Indeed we are.

Also, I’m gonna reserve Cruella too.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#260211: May 15th 2021 at 9:32:03 AM

[tup] to Nikola Kozlow.

Scraggle brings up a good point, so I'll switch to a [tdown] on Terry Cruger.

@AustinDR: Happy birthday.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#260212: May 15th 2021 at 9:33:07 AM

Heads'up for whoever wanted to discuss Amphibia: True Colors is getting released next week officially at last

Might want to keep that in mind for the discussion date sandbox

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#260213: May 15th 2021 at 9:36:59 AM

So, for Trigon...not only can beings of that variety in DC change nature, but I think there's a contextual thing here...

I'm kinda uncomfortable with excluding good candidates because of their nature if they're so in control of themselves and capable of making decisions as such. We've had precedent like with Warhammer, where Ambar once proposed Gorthor...now, Beastmen are irrevocably tainted by Chaos, but they're capable of standards and even their own moral codes that Gorthor violates. Contrast to the Chaos Gods who are simple manifestations of concepts and bound by their natures. Khorne is formed from bloodshed and slaughter and has to embrace it. Likewise, Aku from Samurai Jack has the nature of evil where he literally cannot help from being Stupid Evil sometimes even if it kinda screws him over heavily.

I'm more lenient to beings who are shown to be genius planners in command of their faculties, even if formed from darkness, especially when similar beings can change if they desire. Lord Foul from Thomas Covenant is a great example as he is the god of evil, literally made of it, but he's a genius capable of fully understanding goodness and it's confirmed if he truly desired to, he could alter his nature.

It kinda feels like missing the forest for the trees

Edited by Lightysnake on May 15th 2021 at 9:40:28 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260214: May 15th 2021 at 9:49:52 AM

Speaking of Warhammer, isn't Asdrubael Vect also like that, where he violates the very few standards Dark Eldar have?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#260216: May 15th 2021 at 9:51:41 AM

In light of the sexual abuse, I'll toss a [tup] to Terry Cruger. Sounds he just makes it.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#260217: May 15th 2021 at 10:17:02 AM

  • The Dead Zone: Greg Stillson, despite putting on a front as a man of the people, is in truth an insane sociopath with a dangerous messiah complex. Believing that he's destined to become President of the United States, Stillson decides that nothing will get in his way, leading to him threatening a negative reporter with both blackmail and a death threat. When Johnny views his future, he sees Stillson intentionally launching the country's nukes to kill millions of people despite the news of a diplomatic solution, even threatening to cut off his Attorney General's hand to make it happen, all with a hallelujah on his lips. When Johnny attempts to assassinate him to prevent this, Stillson uses a baby as a Human Shield, showing his true selfish colors to the world.

Just a reminder that this is only the film version - his literature version loves his mother.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 15th 2021 at 1:17:36 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#260218: May 15th 2021 at 10:17:53 AM

Does this entry need to be spoiled. I thought the plot of the film is stopping stilson ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260219: May 15th 2021 at 10:19:35 AM

The 1983 film? If so, I think that's the first for Martin Sheen.

Edited by ACW on May 15th 2021 at 1:20:04 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#260220: May 15th 2021 at 10:22:55 AM

[up]Indeed it is. You adding Kozlow to the Pending?

Whether or not Terry’s a bust. I got a third candidate coming though from an unusual source.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#260222: May 15th 2021 at 10:31:37 AM

Well, I'll take comfort that my proposal of Stillson is validated 7 years after the fact.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#260223: May 15th 2021 at 11:01:03 AM

Stillson’s status as Big Bad doesn’t become clear until there’s only about thirty minutes left, so he’s a bit of a Walking Spoiler - also, ACW, Adaptational Villainy is a bit of a stretch on his name, given all that really changed is the removal of one background quality and an ambiguous act becoming deliberate. The book version is a lot more outright sociopathic - he even killed a dog as a child

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 15th 2021 at 2:06:09 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#260224: May 15th 2021 at 11:04:48 AM

Alright, I've spoiled the YMMV.

As for potholes, I'll just leave his name un-potholed and re-add An Arm and a Leg.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#260225: May 15th 2021 at 11:14:37 AM

So I have discovered a potential redeeming quality for Ozai of all people. In the sequel comic series by Dark Horse specifically The Search in a Flashback after Azulon ordered Ozai to kill Zuko, Ozai admits that he is waiting for Zuko to fall asleep before killing him so his death will be painless and even admits that he is a merciful man. Now considering what Ozai does to Zuko later I am not sure if I would consider this subverted or not I would like to know what you think.

This isn't an attempt to cut him as I am honestly not personally sure myself on if this would count as mitigating I just wanted to bring it up since I haven't been able to find this mentioned anywhere. Also before you ask the comic is canon.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on May 15th 2021 at 11:14:49 AM


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