During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
For those curious, the exact line by the Spider regarding the Morlocks is:
This line could maybe be a joke given the Spider is prone to cracking one-liners, but even still, I'm gonna abstain on the Spider for now because I haven't read all of his material, but what I have read doesn't fill me with confidence that he's punching all that high in heinousness. In personality he's one of the more unlikable villains in Exiles, but heinousness is ehhh...like yeah he expresses desire to go on killing sprees and wanting to hurt innocents, but as far as I know of the character he gets very little onscreen bodycount of people without the addendums of either 1. The victims being explicit enemies, or 2. His fellow teammates all participate in the murders
Edited by Ravok on May 11th 2021 at 3:38:14 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!"His teammates all participate in the murders," you say. What then do you say about Ao A Sabretooth, the Token Good Teammate of Weapon X before he defected? Or about Firestar and the Hulk, who were recruited to stop Hyperion and tried to do so?
Give me an instance of the Spider committing any sort of notable massacre or crime, onscreen, besides the Morlocks who Storm assisted him with. Besides that, as I've now read most of his material? His villainy amounts to killing a small handful of people, bragging about a desire to kill more, and being a subservient to Hyperion who other villains ally with as well. Psycho for Hire assisting Hyperion in trying to conquer worlds he may be, I'm not seeing much differentiating the Spider enough to stand out in the Marvel universe except having a bloodthirsty personality.
And tbh, the more I've read of him, the more water I'm giving that his statement about the Morlocks had some level of standards behind it. The Spider is downright eager and unsubtle as hell about killing people, and his jokes are usually in the deadpan wit way...him taking time to note that killing enemies in their sleep was something they "deserved better" for is hitting me as a more genuine statement than I first thought.
Giving him a formal 'No' without a good counterargument.
Edited by Ravok on May 11th 2021 at 4:15:24 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Changing my vote for spider to
.
- Clownface: The titular Clownface is a Serial Killer. At some point, a young boy named Owen would witness him after one of his killings, so he would start stalking him and his family. Eventually, he would kill his father and take his mother, keeping her for a long time locked up in a room until she eventually went insane. He would continue killing for a long time, eventually finding Rick and Zoey killing Rick and taking Zoe captive. During the film, he kills a man in the woods by skinning their face off and massacres a bunch of people at a party.
Spider
Yo, just finished Resident Evil Village. PM me for fresh deetz and discussions on who keeps.
It's Spooky Month!Hey everyone, finally finished with Yakuza 6, and thus can give my thoughts on Tsuneo Iwami and my potential candidates. I'll start with Iwami first, but before I do so there something I have to ask. Do you want to tell you guys the regular way, or do you want me to do a brand new EP for him? Cause there are a few crimes that the write up left out, and I was wondering on whether or not he deserves a new EP like the Major and Zorin recently got.
Okay, here's my long-delayed writeup of Brand. (Dear stomach: Please don't give me any more trouble for a while. Sincerely, Ramidel.)
- Brand from Closer to Home is the charming, psychopathic heir of House Raeylen. He begins by seducing young Violetta of House Chendlar with false promises of love, but when the King arranges for him to marry Violetta's older sister and promises them an estate, he comes up with a new plot: His men try to kill every member of both Houses Chendlar and Raeylen at his wedding feast except for himself and Violetta, so that when he marries her, he'll hold three estates instead of one. He succeeds in killing his father, and when apprehended, he calls Violetta "a pair of legs and an empty head," and admits that he planned to manipulate Violetta during their marriage so that he could use his new wealth to purchase the services of a High-Class Call Girl. A patricide, attempted mass murderer and an utter misogynist, Brand is the vilest young noble of his era.
Edited by Ramidel on May 12th 2021 at 11:08:34 AM
New Canon Grievous, Surtr (Dread Alan Scott looks hilarious), Hecate, Pan (now there’s some mythical Adaptational Villainy I’ve never seen before).
No to the Spider.
Late no to Tortured One. While the validity of his Freudian Excuse is questionable, he’s too much of a pawn to Spongebob...boy it still feels weird that a version of him keeps.

It's not a mitigating factor because it doesn't affect him as a character. He still killed as ruthlessly and sadistically as he did before for people who were even more deserving of a better fate.