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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#259502: May 10th 2021 at 12:18:18 PM

Likely, I'm planning to read the manga that was made based on the 2000 anime (now how's that for recursion? Also penned by Hirano himself) to see if it does anything differently. As Lighty can tell you I'd really love a version of Jan Valentine but the franchise is fucking dark and it would take quite a bit to bulk up his crimes enough for this.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259503: May 10th 2021 at 12:18:20 PM

Yes to Major, Doktor, and Zorin.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#259505: May 10th 2021 at 12:21:01 PM

[tup] Hellsing trio.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#259506: May 10th 2021 at 12:25:26 PM

[tup] for Ghidorah, Temptress, Al-Kabbar, Amarkax, Nekron, the Major, the Doctor, and Zorin.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#259507: May 10th 2021 at 12:27:42 PM

[tup] Hellsing trio, and I will have to give Wonder Woman a [tdown] As horrible as she is and as much as I despise her the whole "loving Superman" stuff is too hard to get around.

As for Gorilla Grodd he is too small potatoes compared to everyone else in the franchise. The henious standard of Injustice is pretty insane.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#259509: May 10th 2021 at 12:29:59 PM

The main issue with Jan besides heinousness...I think it's a hard sell he doesn't care for Luke. The brothers do seem pretty close, and Jan speaks quite glowingly of him. while engaging in happy banter. It's not much, but it's something.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#259510: May 10th 2021 at 12:32:58 PM

In the manga/Ultimate yes but the 2000 one really watered that down to just business partners, as well as having given them a few extra crimes. It'll take more of course but I can see a twist maybe doing it in another incarnation.

Zorin really counts because again, other than Alucard—who is multiple times her power level—no one is capable of reducing someone to such a broken mess before killing them. Other than her it takes a lot of control over vampiric activity to stand out, since "standard vampire behaviour" is made into things like wipe out a village and police force, slaughter countless families, massacre a morgue, etc.

Edited by 43110 on May 10th 2021 at 3:36:00 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259511: May 10th 2021 at 12:36:05 PM

By the way, has anyone reserving the recently released Netflix adaptation of Jupiter's Legacy? Because I decided to reserve that one and possibly have a keeper if you want more details on it you can PM about it.

Pikamencer079 Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#259512: May 10th 2021 at 12:39:38 PM

What is the Work?

Dark Nights: Death Metal is a DC Comics crossover event that lasted from 2020 to 2021 and focuses on Wonder Woman as she attempts to save the Multiverse from Perpetua and the Batman Who Laughs.

But this isn't about the Mother of the Multiverse or the Darkest Knight, as they were both approved as CM's earlier in the year. No, this candidate is the Robin King.

Who is the Robin King?

The Robin King is the Bruce Wayne of an unspecified Earth in the Dark Multiverse, having been born as a hyper-violent and sadistic child, repeatedly committing atrocious acts throughout his childhood, with Alfred covering for him in the hopes that he would become calmer with age. As in Prime Earth, the Waynes walk into Crime Alley after going to the movie theater and run into Joe Chill. Unlike in Prime Earth where Chill shoots the Waynes after trying to mug them, young Bruce viciously stabs the mugger to death before picking up his gun and shooting down his own parents himself, pretending that it was the mugger who shot them.

At his parents' funeral, Bruce was inspired by a robin chirping in a nearby tree and delighted in his newly-inherited wealth, secretly using it to build weapons for taking more lives. He shoots Jim Gordon, who was nearby at the time the Waynes were killed, in the jugular with a crossbow before turning on Alfred, who barely managed to subdue him with a tranquilizer dart. He then fashioned a costume for himself and attacked Alfred once more, bashing his head in with a stone bust. Bruce then began to move onto bigger game, sadistically killing his world's superheroes using his stockpile of weapons, even as a manhunt was ordered against him. In the midst of the carnage he wrought, Bruce was approached by the Batman Who Laughs, who told him of the nature of the Dark Multiverse and offered to show him a world where his actions had meaning. Although suspicious, Bruce accepts and is taken by his adult counterpart to the latter's homeworld of Earth -22, which he had refurbished as a factory for turning children into Groblins. Bruce was forcibly converted into a Groblin, but not before he swallowed a pill that allowed him to retain his free will.

Bruce was present during the Batman Who Laughs's invasion of Prime Earth, and was the only Dark Knight the now-nigh-omnipotent madman spared on account of being just as inherently vicious as he was, naming him the Robin King. The newly christened Robin King gleefully worked alongside his counterpart, who now called himself the Darkest Knight, and tried to kill many of the heroes who stood against them, shooting Jonah Hex with a debrider bullet to eat away at his necrotized flesh, unleashing an Anti-Living Baker family against Animal Man, killing Ted Kord by luring a giant blue scarab to eat him, and turning Red Tornado into a human as he was slowly and painfully torn apart. He was about to kill the Trinity when the Darkest Knight intervened and took him away to Earth -22, appointing him the new leader of his squadron of Groblins. The Robin King took part in the final battle between the heroes and the Darkest Knight's forces, engaging a Black Lantern ring-wielding Batman, who defeated him by reviving both his fallen allies and the Groblins they killed to overwhelm him, leaving his fate unknown.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

The Robin King is unrepentant towards any of his actions and actively enjoys what he does, and as I discussed in his biography, he is a born psychopath with no excuse for what he did.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Although the Darkest Knight obviously has a much higher kill count and has done more depraved things over the course of his post-Joker life, the Robin King arguably comes in at a close second. Despite starting out quite tame with actions like bashing Alfred in the face with his rattle as a baby, as he grows, he becomes more and more violent, committing such atrocities as torturing animals, violently maiming and hurting other people, and as mentioned above, killing his own parents in Crime Alley. After that, he begins brutally killing people like the above-mentioned Alfred and much of the superhero population of his universe, as well as several heroes in Prime Earth. Not to mention that he's willingly aiding a madman in trying to kill everyone in the Multiverse and rebuild it in his own twisted image, all at only 10 years old.

Final Verdict?

I'd like to hear your opinions in the thread. grin

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#259514: May 10th 2021 at 12:57:42 PM

I'm leaning yes for the Robin King. He's the one closest to the One who Laughs in terms of motive and goals and him explicitly assisting in the final end goals, with the general monstrosity of the Dark Multiverse...

It's a tough one because the HS is just that big, but joining the One Who Laughs as his chief general is a big tip of the scales for me

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#259515: May 10th 2021 at 12:58:21 PM

Yes to the Hellsing duo and The Robin King.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259516: May 10th 2021 at 1:02:02 PM

[tup] to Robin King, not bad for your first Effortpost smile

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#259517: May 10th 2021 at 1:02:18 PM

[tup]robin king

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#259518: May 10th 2021 at 1:02:53 PM

[tup] Robin King. great work on this effortpost! Very well-written.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#259521: May 10th 2021 at 1:11:14 PM

The fact that he impressed the Batman who Laughs himself is impressive. And if Lighty thinks he's bad enough I'll give a yes as well.

I guess he'll go under Perpetua in a Death Metal tree?

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#259522: May 10th 2021 at 1:35:18 PM

Yes to Bruce Wayne: Little Shit edition.

[down] I don't think the actor thing applies to different adaptations, but as long as the game has a substantial plot I'd hear out an EP on it.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on May 10th 2021 at 1:39:03 AM

creativename24 The Chefman Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
The Chefman
#259523: May 10th 2021 at 1:36:28 PM

I found out that there is a Spawn Game Boy Color game that uses full voice acting, and Charles Martinet does the voice of Clown/Violator. Should Martinet go on the C Ms By Actor page or would an effortpost be required first?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#259524: May 10th 2021 at 1:38:54 PM

We'll need an EP but considering we got a version of Malebolgia from a dumbed-down video game for the SNES, I'd fucking love to see that.

Edited by Scraggle on May 10th 2021 at 2:39:36 AM

creativename24 The Chefman Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
The Chefman
#259525: May 10th 2021 at 1:41:39 PM

I skimmed through the video and yeah it seems like Clown only shows up for that one boss fight. Dang. I'm surprised Martinet doesn't have a CM yet.


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