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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#259452: May 10th 2021 at 9:18:16 AM

Shouldn't the Hearts of Iron fan-games get their own page, given that there is 14 CM's?

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#259453: May 10th 2021 at 9:18:18 AM

[tup] to Ghidorah (again), Temptress, Al-Shabbar and Amarkax

Edited by WatTambor on May 10th 2021 at 7:18:37 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#259454: May 10th 2021 at 9:20:39 AM

[up][up] We don't usually do that kind of stuff, the RWBY and MLP pages were done out of necessity.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#259455: May 10th 2021 at 9:20:59 AM

[up][up][up] Aren't they already listed on Fan Games? Don't really see the need for a new page.

Edited by Bullman on May 10th 2021 at 11:22:27 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#259456: May 10th 2021 at 9:41:20 AM

What is the Work?

Tales from the Dark Multiverse: Blackest Night is one of the specials under Tales From the Dark Multiverse, which explores the popular events from the main DC universe and sees basically What If? scenarios, with specific theme being, what if the worst possible thing has happened and the heroes have failed. All specials are stand alone issues set in their own universes and thus are self contained. This particilar issue centers on Blackest Night event and what would happen if Nekron has won.

My candidate ofcourse is Nekron

Who is Nekron?

As usual, the lord of the dead and the creator of Black Lanterns, due to selfishness of Sinestro, who decided to not share his power of the White Ring with others, Nekron managed to win and slaughter nearly all of heroes of the Earth, turning them into zombi-like Black Lanterns and then proceeds to wipe out the whole population of the Earth and moves to the rest of the galaxy, eradicating entire species, turning many into his slave Black Lantern warriors, as he intends on killing all life in his universe.

When regretful Sinestro, Lobo and Dove (the last survivors in the galaxy, judging by the comic) united and tried to reach the Source Wall, so they could use its energy to destroy Nekron and restore life in the universe, Nekron sends Black Lanterns after them. As the heroes travel and pick up a life signal, they discover that Nekron has turned all New Gods into his zombi minions, after which they see that Mister Miracle have managed to survive and he was the one who lured them here to help them in their quest. As they prepare to channel the Source energy through Dove, they are interrupted by the arrival of the Black Lanterns and Darkseid, who became an Avatar of Nekron aka Nekron possesed him and speaks through him.

"Praising" Lobo for serving him for many years (since Lobo sended many people to him by killing them during his life), Nekron is offended by "their creation of life" and when Mister Miracle was ready to activate the devise he pretended to be Darkseid to convince him to stop by revealing that all turned into Black Lanterns will not be ressurected, but destroyed with him as well. As this leads to Mister Miracle killing Dove and stopping the devise, Lobo kills Miracle in anger. When the survivor duo start to lose, Nekron mocks Sinestro and prepares to kill him, while announcing his intention to kill the last surviving civilizations.

Sinestro managed to get power up and destroy Black Lantern forces, before he uses Lobo to direct the power of the Source Wall to destroy Nekron and the rest of Black Lanterns, purifying the universe from them. Although, due to most of the universe (and entierty of Earth) being dead, since all were either killed or ressurected as Black Lanterns (and those were destroyed as well by the power of The Source), life on Earth started to evolve, with another life form evolving and traveling to space, creating new conflicts.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. It is the same sadistic undead creature, who loves to torment and destroy any life he sees.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

As i said, all issues are self-contained, so the heinous standard is not shared with any other series or issue, that said, Nekron has destroyed countless species', killed billions, transformed just as much into his zombi-like slaves, and intended to completely eradicate all life in his universe. I think he passes.

'Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 10th 2021 at 7:44:01 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#259459: May 10th 2021 at 9:51:56 AM

[tup] to Shah Al-Kabbar, Amarkax, and Nekron.

SilverCrown (Private) Relationship Status: Singularity
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#259461: May 10th 2021 at 10:41:11 AM

[tup]nekron

btw guys my phone is in the shop and my laptop is wonky. So ill be scarce till i get the former fixed.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#259463: May 10th 2021 at 11:19:07 AM

[tup] Amarkax and Melton

Also wanted to ask - I'm watching literally every anime this season for a podcast. (Kill me.) Are there any titles anyone wants me to keep an eye on? I've already claimed Joran and I'm pretty sure Tokyo Revengers will have some potentials.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#259464: May 10th 2021 at 11:20:58 AM

Their is one guy from Moriarty the patriot that me and lighty have dibbed (Milverton) whose arc in the anime should be over by this season.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#259465: May 10th 2021 at 11:22:55 AM

Been meaning to look at Revengers, but yeah, Milverton is unfinished business.

Pikamencer079 Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#259466: May 10th 2021 at 11:27:29 AM

I'd like to suggest two characters I believe are worthy of Complete Monster status.

Metal Sonic from the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise.

  • Actions: Aids Doctor Eggman in trying to conquer Little Planet, is willing to kidnap innocents like Amy Rose; Froggy; and Chocola to further his goals, tries numerous times to kill Sonic, betrays Eggman twice upon gaining free will, attempts to become all-powerful and take over the world using the heroes' biodata, and continues to serve Eggman since then.
  • Relationships: There are two major ones to consider: his loyalty to Eggman and more importantly, his obsessive hatred of Sonic, which tends to overwhelm the former numerous times. Other than that, he harbors a dislike of all life and considers all who stand in his way an enemy.
  • Justification: One could argue that Metal Sonic is only following his programming, and it is true that most of the time he serves Eggman's will, but that falls short when you realize that he continues to commit evil acts after breaking free of Eggman's control.
  • No regret: Metal Sonic feels no remorse for the acts of evil he committed and fully indulges in his nature as a villain.
  • Redemption: Although defeated on numerous occasions, Metal Sonic never redeems himself for his actions, and has certainly never tried.

Verdict: With the atrocities this megalomaniacal machine committed, be it under Eggman's heel or independently, and his decision to commit himself to evil even when given the chance to do good while free of Eggman, I'm surprised Metal Sonic wasn't considered a Complete Monster sooner.

Wonder Woman from the Injustice series of games and comics.

  • Actions: Murders Steve Trevor, sides with Superman's One Earth Regime after the Joker is killed, exploits his emotional vulnerability from Lois's death to push him into becoming darker and more willing to kill and actively tries to replace her, kills numerous heroes including Captain Atom and Huntress, influences the rest of the Amazons to turn their backs on their principles and join the Regime, manipulates Supergirl by feeding her lies and half-truths about the Regime, contemplates killing Batman while the Regime and the Insurgency are in an Enemy Mine, tries to execute Cheetah against Batman's orders, rams Harley Quinn through the torso with her sword when she claims that she's "trying to impress the wrong guy" (i.e. Superman), and stands by Superman even as he takes over Brainiac's ship (in the Absolute Power ending).
  • Relationships: She is allied with the Regime and has unrequited feelings for Superman, while seeing Batman and the rest of the Insurgency as enemies, including those who defected, such as Flash, Green Lantern, and Supergirl.
  • Justification: Her Freudian Excuses are the Metropolis incident and that Steve Trevor was a Nazi spy in this reality, but even then it falls flat when you realize a) that other versions of the character would have simply apprehended him, b) that she holds no sentiment to the city or its people (especially Lois), and c) that she was outright stated to not be born with an inherent sense of moral goodness.
  • No regret: Although it's hinted that she subconsciously fears that she started Superman's Start of Darkness, she shows no remorse for any of her actions and blames other people for her wrongdoings.
  • Redemption: Despite being imprisoned for her crimes twice (if one counts the Absolute Justice ending), she never redeems herself or becomes any less villainous as a result.

Verdict: This Wonder Woman is one of the most depraved incarnations of the character ever conceived and very much deserving of recognition as a Complete Monster.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259467: May 10th 2021 at 11:36:41 AM

I think its best to do a separate effort post on both of them if you think they count.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#259468: May 10th 2021 at 11:37:11 AM

Yes to Nekron but we discussed these and deemed both non keeps after you tried circumventing the process to put up their entries Pika. They don't count, please stop adding them. Also looking at your to do list I see you listed Mia Sutton, she has been discussed extensively and ruled a non keeper.

Pikamencer079 Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#259469: May 10th 2021 at 11:37:47 AM

[tup] to Nekron. The guy is listed as Pure Evil on the Villains Wiki, anyway. (Pure Evil is practically synonymous with Complete Monster)

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#259470: May 10th 2021 at 11:38:35 AM

Please tell me you're not just pushing for things to go up on the basis of being listed by Villain's Wiki. That's a major issue we've had in the past.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#259471: May 10th 2021 at 11:39:00 AM

[up][up] We're not the Villains Wiki. They use a different set of standards than we do.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#259472: May 10th 2021 at 11:41:17 AM

@Pika: Gotta love how you sidestepped the fact that Wonder Woman clearly cares about Superman. A CM should not have any redeeming qualities, even if their actions overshadow it.

As for Metal, the reason he's not up is simple: He doesn't even scratch the heinous standards of the franchise. He never goes too far, he's stupidly loyal to Eggman after Heroes, and has shown the rare redeeming quality here and there.

@43: Well, Metal isn't up there, so hey, there's that.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on May 10th 2021 at 11:42:45 AM

Pikamencer079 Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#259473: May 10th 2021 at 11:41:23 AM

True. I guess I'll mark Metal Sonic and Injustice WW off of the to-do list. sad As for Villains Wiki, I know how different it is from TV Tropes, but I thought it was a coincidence that many CMS are listed as Pure Evil on the wiki.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#259474: May 10th 2021 at 11:45:25 AM

I am unfortunately not up to date on Moriarty, so I will leave the Mysterious Milverton to you two! Gonna slap a claim on Tokyo Revengers rn.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#259475: May 10th 2021 at 11:49:02 AM

Hey if you'd like to stick around you're more than welcome to. Before you start posting characters though I'd suggest getting some footing on the stuff we look for, Vile did a good job detailing Nekron there and it covers the sort of character we look for: sufficiently evil in terms of crimes, have agency to choose to be that bad, don't have or subvert any qualities which seem mitigating, etc.


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