During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Carl, Ghidorah and Temptress.
- Def By Temptation: The demon known as Temptress is a sadistic succubus who was responsible for the death of Joel's parents, returning years later to kill him as to tie up loose ends. Throughout the film, she seduces the residents of a bar, luring them to her house and then killing them during sex in various brutal ways, eventually killing everyone in the bar. She also arranges for married man Norman to be killed by his wife for her amusement. When K and Dougy try to stop her, she uses her powers to kill both of them, Dougy being abducted in a car and K eaten by his TV. Drugging Joel and taking him to her house, Temptress takes the form of his father just to torment him further, and attempts to strangle his grandma to death when she tries to stop her.
Did I say Turksploitation? Yes, yes I did.
So grab some Turkish Delight, guys. And enjoy.
Adsız Cengaver, a.k.a The Nameless Knight is a 1970 Turkish historical epic, the Turkish take on The Ten Commandments, again with a fraction of the runtime, some good ol' Cüneyt Arkın action, and... oh god, this quasi-remake's version of King Ramses have his Adaptational Villainy turned Up To Eleven.
The Candidate For Tonight...
Shah Al-Kabbar is a cruel, power-hungry tyrant and ruler of the kingdom of Bukhara, a province in the medieval Ottoman Empire. A tyrant who constantly fears his position as a lord being threatened, Al-Kabbar have his own Fortune Teller who tells his future and provide him with advice on conquest, as well as flushing out any rebellion who opposes his rule, and preventing the Sultan and Caliph in the capital from knowing the truth of his reign.
When one of Al-Kabbar's harem gets impregnated, and eventually gave birth to a baby boy, the fortune-teller fortold the Shah of a vision; he will be killed by his own son in the future. Al-Kabbar orders for the concubine who bore his child and the baby, to be executed; but said concubine flees with the baby into the countryside. By the time Al-Kabbar and his soldiers catches up, the concubine had already sent the baby, wooden cradle and all, down a river, with the child out of sight; the enraged Al-Kabbar then personally drowns the concubine with his bare hands by shoving her face-first into the river.
The cradle containing the baby ends up floating in a farmhouse down river, the home of an elderly couple and their young daughter, who adopts the baby. Since the baby comes literally out of nowhere, the couple ends up naming him Adsiz — "Nameless" in Turk.
A Time Skip follows; while Adsiz grows to adulthood (played by Cüneyt Arkın), Shah Al-Kabbar continues his tyranny on the people. Believing he can rule unopposed, Al-Kabbar expands his territory to the countryside. As a child, Adsiz's adoptive parents forbids him from venturing into the capital city, and being naturally curious Adsiz is eager to travel out; he eventually meets up with Altinay, a female captain of Al-Kabbar's troops, who is on a scouting mission. Being a bit of The Casanova Adsiz tries flirting with Altinay, some Slap-Slap-Kiss follows, and Adsiz eventually leaves her to travel to the city.
Adsiz, due to having a bit of a Chronic Hero Syndrome, ends up beating the snot out of a few of Al-Kabbar's soldiers who's harassing civilians in a market. One thing leads to another, Al-Kabbar's fortune-teller had the foresight that the troublemaker is actually Shah Al-Kabbar's long-lost son; Al-Kabbar, paranoid over his rulership being threatened, quickly orders for his mercenaries to go to the countryside and hunt down every young men who could resemble Adsiz.
An unlikely run-in between Adsiz and Altinay ends up with the two of them being brought to the mercenaries' cave; however they managed to escape, free several prisoners, and kills their way out, save for the mercenary's leader. Adsiz senses trouble and quickly heads home and... dare we say, The Call Knows Where You Live? Adsiz's adoptive family are slaughtered, together with most of the surrounding village, by Al-Kabbar's soldiers. Meanwhile, the failed mercenary leader goes back to Al-Kabbar to report that his prisoners have escaped, and Al-Kabbar demonstrates he's a Bad Boss by having the mercenary leader thrown into a burning pyre alive.
Altinay, following Adsiz all this while, reveals she intends to bail from Al-Kabbar's army because she's disgusted at his dictatorship, and of course she's in love with Adsiz. But Altinay ends up being captured by Al-Kabbar's soldiers, forcing Adsiz to reveal himself to save her, allowing himself to be arrested so that Altinay can flee and rendezvous with an underground Men of Sherwood-style resistance Adsiz befriended earlier on.
In the dungeons, Al-Kabbar recognizes Adsiz to be his long-lost son, and delightfully taunts Adsiz that with the hero dead, nobody will be left to oppose his rule. Al-Kabbar decides to have Adsiz executed in the burning pyre (the same pyre where he had a You Have Failed Me mercenary disposed off earlier), but on the day of execution, Altinay and her allies suddenly ambushed the palace, interrupting the execution by firing arrows at Al-Kabbar's guards. Altinay release Adsiz's bonds during the brawl, Adsiz joins his allies in kicking ass, and in the chaos he stopped Al-Kabbar from ditching his army and fleeing.
With Al-Kabbar held at sword-point, the fighting in the palace ceases; there can be one conclusion, for Adsiz and Al-Kabbar, father and son, to fight each other in a Duel to the Death, the winner earning the throne. So both of them battled in the courtyard, near the still-burning pyre, and Adsiz wins, but upon looking into Al-Kabbar's eyes Adsiz recognize Al-Kabbar as a father, and decides to spare the evil Shah's life, dropping his sword.
Well, no CM would be complete if he wasn't an Ungrateful Bastard... Al-Kabbar repays his son's mercy — the same son that he tried to kill as a baby and intend to execute just minutes ago — by picking up a dropped sword to ambush Adsiz In the Back. But thanks to some Deadly Dodging, Adsiz side-steps Al-Kabbar, who ends up falling into the burning pyre.
So... Any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope, just your plain ol' evil tyrant. One that crosses the Moral Event Horizon by trying to kill his own baby son. He doesn't love anyone, drowning his concubine for trying to flee from him, his replacement concubine is treated as an "object", given how miserable she is throughout her screentime.
How About the Heinousness Standard?
Nothing much to compare, either... the soldiers and mercenaries are just mooks, and the Fortune Teller who started all this mess, beyond looking into Al-Kabbar's future and inadvertently kickstarting the plot, is pretty much just some plot device. And again, it's the Shah's own decision to eliminate his own bloodline, the movie made it quite clear that Al-Kabbar's number one priority is power.
Should We Count Shah Al-Kabbar Then?
Yep, another solid Cuneyt Arkin keeper.
Edited by RobertTYL on May 10th 2021 at 9:23:41 PM
Alright, the final Boom studios Buffy keeper.
Who is Amarkax? What has he done?
Amarkax is a demon that thrives on human vanity and uses it to his advantage. In past centuries, he would live in mirrors and paintings, but nowadays, he lives on smart phones, utilizing social media to contact his victims with a link that, when they click it, compels them to commit death on themselves and others around them. When he's introduced, he tricks the daughter of one of Angel's friends into opening the link by taking advantage of her self-esteem issues, calling her pretty and saying he'll make her see it if she clicks the link. She does, at which point she's hypnotized and burns her house down with her parents inside.
When we see him again, he's having a lengthy talk with a student named Brewster (who volunteers at the mental asylum Fred is in), getting her to trust him before he sends his link. When she clicks it, she smashes her face against the mirror, takes a sharp shard of glass, and walks towards Fred's room to kill her and rid Angel of an ally. Luckily, Lilith had warned Angel already, so he intervenes and only just barely manages to get Amarkax out without killing Brewster.
To deal with Amarkax, Angel goes into his hell dimension in an attempt to banish him forever. When Angel finds him, he's sitting on a mountain of his dozens of victims like a throne, basking in the power he has over his dimension. Utilizing that power, he torments Angel with visions of his past victims and those he couldn't save like Mara, Brewster, and his friends that died, intending to break him down and get him to leave. Luckily, Angel manages to trick him into giving up his name, then calls upon Lilith to banish him from the dimension - she does so, and Amarkax is locked away for at least the next thousand years.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
Between the mountain of victims he sits on like a throne and the fact that he's been doing this for centuries, we've got enough of him on page to establish a pattern - he's fine here.
Does he meet the heinous standard?
Again, he's got a mountain of victims to call his own, plus he's got a very personal touch considering he kills Angel's friend and goes after Fred. He probably would not make it in the regular Buffyverse, but he fits in just fine here for a Starter Villain, especially since he's far and away the worst of all few-shot demons we see (with the exception of the Hellmother for obvious reasons, but his crimes are far more personal than the Hellmother's). Easy yes.
Final verdict?
Another easy keeper, and the last one for now.
Amarax.
Also I'm rechecking the expanded universe books btw. I'm sure we might be able to find a few their. A lot of the authors made extra nasty villains to pose a threat so I'll see if I can find more.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
