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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#259226: May 7th 2021 at 5:37:45 PM

According to research, Dikiy is the leader of the "Post-Midnight Regency of Holy Russia", and is described as someone who's not only responsible for Carrying out mass genocide in the Far East, but also even directly participating in it. He gained his position by performing a mass purge of not only his rivals, but also his close allies as well.

Guess it all comes down to how nasty Holy Russia is.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#259227: May 7th 2021 at 5:55:40 PM

Alright, got the second one from the Boom Studios Buffy reboot - and we are, at most, halfway done. In this case, it's the OG Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds herself, Drusilla.

Who is Drusilla? What does she do?

Drusilla, going by The Mistress here, is reimagined as a far more competent threat, both more intelligent and far more brutal than she was originally. Introduced when she breaks into Anya's magic shop, she threatens Anya to give her a mystic object that will make her invincible. In the process, she unleashes the demon Camazotz - while Camazotz is actually an ally to the Slayer, he still accidentally attacks a restaurant full of innocent people in the confusion. During the mess, she and Spike confront Buffy for the first time and hold Cordelia hostage to try to get her to surrender. She comes close to biting Buffy herself, but they're eventually driven back. In the chaos, she takes Buffy's phone for herself.

In their hideout, Drusilla orders Spike to pull a cat fishing operation on Xander. Tricking the depressed lad into believing that Buffy is asking him on a date, Dru has Spike lead Xander out for what he thinks is a date night - which comes crashing down when Willow informs him that Buffy's with her that night. Believing that Buffy deliberately stood him up, Xander breaks down crying, at which point Dru moves in, manipulates him into letting her bite him by promising to make the pain go away, and then leaves the poor boy to die. Spike takes pity on him and lets him finish the siring process before they toss Xander at Giles' doorstep with a note attached to his shirt saying "tasteless".

When they return home, she criticizes Spike for siring him, saying that it reminds her of when she sired him, and angrily says that he is much weaker than she needs - she needs an army of men for what she wants to do. She shows Spike a picture of an ancient dagger, a dagger which can perform the ritual to open the Hellmouth for them. The dagger is part of a museum exhibition that night, so she and her vamps take the entire building hostage. Realizing why they're there, Giles stealthily takes the dagger, but when Drusilla notices it's missing, she threatens to kill everyone in the room unless the thief returns it, starting with the curator of the exhibit - Joyce Summers, Buffy's mother.

At the last second, Jenny gives her the dagger, at which point she immediately stabs Spike in the chest with it. Gloating over him, she reveals that the ritual requires "the blood of the loyal" and that their whole relationship was built over creating enough of a connecting from him that the dagger would work, leaving him behind to go finally open the Hellmouth. With the ritual requiring one more sacrifice, she captures Sandy, an innocent teenager, and takes her to the Seal of the Hellmouth, bleeding her onto the Seal so as to open it and release the beasts within so as to enrage the men into her army and enslave the women.

Unfortunately for her, though, the Hellmother has something to say about that and captures her. When she's eventually found by Buffy and Angel, she angrily growls that she thought she would be in charge, yet quickly gets her wits about her in order to sow doubt between the two of them, including revealing that Angel watched Xander die and didn't try to intervene. Once the secret that he's a vampire comes out, she gloats about what a wonderful sire he was, enraging Buffy to the point that she separates from the group. Eventually, however, she makes the mistake of trying to take on the Hellmother directly in revenge for her "betrayal" - the Hellmother easily throws her into the Hellmouth's lake. When the Hellmother ends up in there, Drusilla spitefully drags her down under as well, finally ending both of their threats at the same time.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

None here. There's no indication that she shares her original counterpart's tragic backstory of being tortured by Angelus, her relationship with Spike is one-sided on his end and self-admittedly fake on hers, Spike serves as proof that lacking a soul still does not equal lack of agency, and her Enemy Mine with Buffy and Angel is purely because she wants vengeance for being "betrayed" by the Hellmother - she even deliberately turns the two of them against each other while she's at it - so she's perfectly fine here.

Does she meet the heinous standard?

This is a slight issue, but I think she keeps just fine. The main issue is that once the Hellmother comes along, she gets pretty much curb stomped and killed without much effort. However, in this case, we're comparing two completely different things - we're comparing a vampire who happens to know a ritual to a goddess of the Hellmouth. If anything, the fact that the Hellmother is her only direct competition works in her favor; they have the exact same plan for humanity, mind controlling the men into her army and enslaving the women, the only difference between them is that Dru thought she was going to be in control of the situation. Besides, the Hellmother wouldn't even be able to escape if it weren't for her and she shows great admiration for what the Hellmother plans, meaning we can essentially put the Hellmother's crimes back to her as well. Kinda like with Olivia Pierce getting annihilated by Hell's forces once her job is done, I'm not inclined to hold the standard the Hellmother sets against her, since Dru not only enables it to happen but also has the exact same goal with far less resources anyway.

Plus, she's also got much more personal crimes than the Hellmother did, since she threatens Buffy's mother directly, killed Xander and caused the Scoobies much heartbreak, and ultimately drives a wedge between Buffy and Angel's blossoming friendship. One of the side stories even features another vampire who attempts to open a Hellmouth, but since that's all he does, Drusilla outheinouses him severely. Overall, I think she stands out enough.

Final verdict?

I think that thanks to the writers essentially giving her "Acathla Lite", we've got another easy keeper. What about you?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#259228: May 7th 2021 at 5:58:04 PM

What an... interesting character to give Adaptational Villainy. [tup] Drusilla

It's Spooky Month!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#259230: May 7th 2021 at 6:18:55 PM

[tup] to Drusilla

Anymore votes for The Linen Man and Patricia?

Edited by G-Editor on May 7th 2021 at 9:19:31 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#259231: May 7th 2021 at 6:26:14 PM

[tup] Pooch, Linen, Dr Psycho, Patricia, Drusilla

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#259233: May 7th 2021 at 7:29:21 PM

[tup] Irregulars duo, Drusilla, Ah Puch, and one of the oddest examples of a Composite Character I've ever seen, Dr. Psycho/Imperiex.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#259234: May 7th 2021 at 8:05:49 PM

[tup] to drusilla

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#259235: May 7th 2021 at 8:20:56 PM

[tup] Drusilla

Apologies for being away, the second dose totally wiped me out.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#259236: May 7th 2021 at 8:40:42 PM

[tup] to Psycho, Drusilla, Jones and Linen.

Edited by DrScavenge27 on May 8th 2021 at 2:50:26 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259237: May 7th 2021 at 8:48:50 PM

Sure to Drusilla

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#259238: May 7th 2021 at 9:27:18 PM

[tup] to Ah Puch, the Linen Man, Dr. Jackson Alpert/Doctor Psycho/Imperiax, Patricia Colman Jones, and Drusilla.

@LargoQuagmire: Congratulations on getting your second dosage and I hope you fele better soon.

@Orangutuans: TheMadCr0w covered my exact thoughts on why those guys don't count and as for Andrey Dikiy? He's massively outheinoused by plenty of other warlords on his same resource level. Specifically, there are two warlords who want the same goal as Dikiy (the only reason why they're less hateable is because they're doing it out of genuine loyalty to their former leader), a separate warlord that wants to kill every single Russian outside of its territory before doing the same thing to Nazi Germany, and a satanic cult that commits human sacrifice. Overall, Dikiy is outheinoused and can't keep.

Edited by DrUnknown on May 7th 2021 at 9:39:02 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#259239: May 7th 2021 at 10:00:19 PM

[tup] Ah Puch, Linen Man, Psycho, Patricia and Drusilla

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#259240: May 7th 2021 at 11:54:07 PM

[tup] Dru.

Edited by ACW on May 7th 2021 at 2:54:18 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#259242: May 8th 2021 at 1:47:15 AM

[tup]dru.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#259246: May 8th 2021 at 8:12:09 AM

[tup] Ah Puch, Linen Man, Psycho, Patricia and Drusilla

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#259247: May 8th 2021 at 9:13:22 AM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand next up on our show, give it up for an old fan favorite, Angelus!

Who is Angelus? What does he do?

Angelus is the most legendary vampire known to man, known for his centuries of brutality and destruction. From the moment he was sired, he became a one-man scourge of humanity, traveling all around Europe destroying everything in sight. He didn't limit himself to humans, either - everything that wasn't a vampire, human or demon, was fair game, as he believed that vampires were the true master race and that the Earth was meant for them alone.

At some point, as detailed in the side comic "The Sisters of Angelus", he sired dozens of convents across the continent, then converted the convents into sweatshop laundromats so as to provide the nuns he sired with dozens of innocent girls to feed on. These asylums would imprison anyone considered to have been any kind of rule-breaker (whether or not it was legitimate), worked on slave labor, and then fed on by the nuns in Angelus' name.

Later on in his life, he was confronted by the demon hunter Mara in a village, but just like every other demon hunter he encountered, he easily slew her. However, he decided to have his fun with this one. First, he injured her enough to leave her just on the brink of death, then forced her to beg him to sire her - she eventually moans that she doesn't want to die, so Angelus sires her. Then, knowing that she's hoping she'll die before she feeds on anyone, he leaves her to starve in a dungeon so that she'll go mad with the thirst. Naturally, by the time Angelus presents her with a little girl as a hostage, she's given in to the thirst, so she eats the girl. Angelus christens her Marius, his axe, then tells her of his mission to eradicate humanity and demonkind - the two went on to kill everything they came across for another century.

Luckily for humanity, Angelus eventually made the mistake of targeting a Romani village - while burning it to the ground, he killed a little girl. The little girl's father wanted revenge, so he cursed Angelus with a soul, locking him away inside the heroic Angel's body.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

Let's be real, it's Angelus, do I really need to say anything else?

...well I will anyway, just to be safe - the long and short answers are both "no". He's incapable of love, we see enough of his acts in flashbacks to avoid Offscreen Villainy, and he and Angel are still treated as separate entities, so he's all good.

Does he meet the heinous standard?

For a vampire with no magic and no resources working for him? Abso-freaking-lutely. He burns dozens of villages to the ground, kills countless people, Mind Rapes a demon hunter into his most loyal weapon, and sets up demon covents to feed on innocent girls, and intends to wipe every other species off the planet. He's a yep.

Final verdict?

And the third easy keeper of the comic.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#259248: May 8th 2021 at 9:13:59 AM

  • Brute Corps (1971): Wicks is a psychotic rapist who proves himself the worst of the mercenaries. A psychopath who wants to have as much excitement as possible before his inevitable death, Wicks has committed several war crimes in the past, which include murdering a pregnant woman, even saving an article of the incident as a cherished memory. Molesting any woman he comes across, Wicks takes the hippie Terry for himself to be his Sex Slave, willing to kill his own allies to keep her for himself. After raping Terry, he lets her go, only to allow the mercenaries to gang bang her, ultimately planning to degrade Terry’s mental state so that she will become his pet forever.

Edit: [tup] Angel

Edited by therealjackieboy on May 8th 2021 at 9:14:17 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#259249: May 8th 2021 at 9:17:22 AM

Easy yep to Angelus.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#259250: May 8th 2021 at 9:20:00 AM

[tup]Angelus.

Do we not know who sires him here or is it also assumes to be darla ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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