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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#258851: May 4th 2021 at 11:43:53 AM

[tup] Darcy

[up] Depends. Are they distinct individuals with their own persinality or just direct copies?

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258852: May 4th 2021 at 11:46:56 AM

Direct copies.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#258853: May 4th 2021 at 12:06:12 PM

[up] Shouldn't be much of a problem then. Got up a Brainiac on those terms.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#258854: May 4th 2021 at 12:19:16 PM

[tup]Darcy

I think the clone thing is a case by case scenario

Edited by nwotyzal on May 4th 2021 at 12:19:44 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#258856: May 4th 2021 at 1:01:38 PM

I hate to ask again, but anymore opinions on this. I don't mind the pothole, but it's past our limit rules and it was not approved by the thread.

Edited by Bullman on May 4th 2021 at 3:01:56 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258857: May 4th 2021 at 1:03:11 PM

I think its good.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#258859: May 4th 2021 at 1:11:58 PM

[up][up][up] I'll reiterate I prefer the original.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#258860: May 4th 2021 at 1:21:02 PM

[tup] Mr. Darcy/Nazi!Picard.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258861: May 4th 2021 at 1:29:04 PM

Got another candidate from the Zack Snyder Cut of Justice League whom I was thinking about for a bit if he could count but after asking Lighty Snake about it I think he might be worth a shot.

Who Is The Black Clad Alpha?

The nameless leader of the self-proclaimed reactionary group known as Black Clad is a terrorist wanting to send England and the rest of humanity back to the dark ages, thinking it's "man's best hope"... Somehow.

To this end, he infiltrates the Old Bailey Central Criminal Court of England, gunning down any guards in their way. He and his group hold hostages within the building, most of the hostages happen to be school children judging from their uniforms, threatening the police that he'll kill the hostages. He plans to set up a bomb to blow up four city blocks, potentially gonna kill many in the explosion including the hostages.

Wonder Woman comes to the rescue, and defeated most of the terrorists, and stops the explosion by throwing it high enough into the sky. The Alpha decided to gun down the hostages himself, taking one of his henchman's guns and tries to kill everyone, including the children inside. However, Wonder Man defeats the leader by utterly obliterating him, thus saving the hostage.

Mitigating Factor?

He's not brimming with personality or complexity, he's a delusional fanatic wanting to send humanity back to the dark ages "in the safety of Holy Fear" thinking it could save them somehow. He has some personality to avoid being a Generic Dooms Day Villain, he has a goal, and is a stoic yet cold and ruthless leader who under his gentleman-like persona is a delusional fundamentalist. Oh, and he's not above killing children as well.

Heinous Standards

He is simply a minor villain with little resources, only leading a small group of terrorists and no high-tech weaponry or powers. He isn't an alien warlord like Steppenwolf or an evil deity like Darkseid, just a mere human being. He also does enough in his small screen time, willing to murder a group of school children, trying to bomb four city blocks, and murdering a few security guards in his way.

Note: I'm doing only Snyder Cut since the film is non-canon to the DCEU therefore I think there are no issues with the heinous standards.

Final Verdict

I'll leave it up to you.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 4th 2021 at 4:29:31 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#258863: May 4th 2021 at 1:36:58 PM

I'm leaning to a [tdown], mainly because both Steppenwolf and Darkseid raise the heinousness standard a wee bit too much. Would like to hear others' opinions, tho

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258864: May 4th 2021 at 1:38:24 PM

I kinda think comparing a human terrorist with only a few men to a god and a alien warlord is kinda unfair. Considering the level of resources.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 4th 2021 at 4:39:33 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258865: May 4th 2021 at 1:39:43 PM

Based on the EP, I’ll also lean [tup] to the Alpha when thinking in terms of the Synder Cut (which I still haven’t seen) potentially being separated and allowing more leeway when judging heinousness.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#258866: May 4th 2021 at 1:40:10 PM

Sure to Black Clad Alpha, barely but sure. I feel like comparing him to god-like beings is unfair. He's just one human guy with a small group of men.

Edited by Bullman on May 4th 2021 at 3:41:40 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#258867: May 4th 2021 at 1:41:59 PM

I was thinking about him actually

[tup] To Alpha

Got Absolute Dick for recources, with it being him and some Goons. And tries to blow up 4 city block's, in addition to killing the Guards and spitefully trying to murder all the hostages.

For a dude he's onscreen for like 10 minutes, that's kind of impressive.

Bow to the Prototype
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258869: May 4th 2021 at 1:45:25 PM

So are the bits with the Alpha in The Snyder Cut basically the same as the 2017 film (which I have seen) except that the heinousness of the Snyder Cut is judged on its own instead?

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258870: May 4th 2021 at 1:46:13 PM

His acts are the same and I think we get more info on his motives via one of his goons in the Snyder Cut.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 4th 2021 at 4:46:34 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258872: May 4th 2021 at 1:49:50 PM

[up][up]Makes sense. I mean in the regular DCEU continuity, Ludendorff causes genocide and he’s simply a man with resources is all.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#258873: May 4th 2021 at 1:50:16 PM

I'm conflicted but Leaning "no". He's barely a character and only exists to give Wondy an entrance.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#258874: May 4th 2021 at 1:51:37 PM

Eh, sure to the terrorist from the self-indulgent cut.

I think it's helped that the DCEU isn't QUITE as high a standard as the MCU yet.

[up][up] Ludendorff is A) a general, and B) helped (albeit unknowingly) by Ares; he's not "just a man".

Edited by ACW on May 4th 2021 at 4:53:01 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary

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