During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I don't know about you, but I fucking love seeing candidates cut. It makes it feel like the thread still has a purpose. Personally, I always find cuts far more interesting than proposing yet another version of Joker or Satan or whatever and just voting yes out of necessity.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Erina, great work!
Okay, this is really difficult to decide, but to be quite honest with you guys... I'm more inclined to say "keep", Mecha Ryoma is a faithful recreation of the original Ryoma just like Megahex's Mecha Kurogakes, but at the end of the day he's still just that, a recreation, a mechanical humanoid imitating the real deal. As a matter of fact, his death scene shows that beneath the perfect replica lies nothing but an android with big red eyes. I don't know what the director's intentions were, but yes, Ryoma and Mecha Ryoma are generally treated as two separate characters. Furthermore, Takatora's own semi-recent spinoff doesn't have a single mention of Mecha Ryoma and even explores a bit more of Ryoma's atrocities during his time with Ygdrasill.
Anyone want to comment on my proposed addition
?
There are the two sides, all. I'm still going to say "cut" because I stand my earlier response to Mir's argument. I'm not at all going to argue if he stays up (he's a great villain and I'm going to have at least two MBs from my watch of the series and its corresponding movies later) but I really can't be comfortable with him continuing the keep when the movie is treating not only the two characters but their overall character arc as one in the same. There are no inconsistencies between Ryoma and his robotic reincarnation whatsoever—not even this redeeming quality, as it has strong basis in Ryoma's original character arc, which implies a level of depth to the clone that I don't think Megahex possibly could have gotten jus by scanning Kouta's memories.
I'll let y'all decide. Yes to Mir's proposed addition to Simm.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 30th 2021 at 6:13:44 AM
I say yes to Gaunt whom carves a particularly nasty niche in the Potterverse and... yeah I'm staying out of this Ryoma business. I watched Gaim but missed the EP for Ryoma, but was happy to have him listed. But I'm so confused by KR continuity and canon I think it best I abstain here.
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And happy birthday to her!
Edited by PolarPhantom on Apr 30th 2021 at 7:26:33 AM
Gaunt, Banding trio, Frank, Skynet, Frank, Erina
Abstain on Ryoma
Happy birthday to Robert's mom.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineAlso, proposal for the Image Links page: Adolf "Addie" Hitler III hard at work with a prisoner
◊ from the 2019 Freedom Fighters run. I don't usually propose pictures but this one might just be perfect.
Alright I went back and watched the Movie War (or at least the part that has Ryoma in it) and, putting the whole "is this the real Ryoma" aside, even if the Ryoma in the film is the same one as in Gaim I don't think he does anything in the film that truly mitigates him from being a Complete Monster.
Takatora's Breaking Speech (at least in the translation I saw) doesn't last long and is mostly just him calling Ryoma a "slave" to the Megahex Collective, which naturally gets under his skin given the colossal ego Ryoma has. And while Ryoma does Go Out with a Smile, his final words amount to little more than Villain Respect to Takatora for beating him even though he had a superior Driver. I don't think it can be denied that Ryoma cared for Takatora at least on some level in the past, but whatever care Ryoma had for Takatora wasn't enough to stop Ryoma from trying to kill Takatora in Gaim, and it isn't enough to stop Ryoma from trying to kill Takatora in this movie.
In short, I'm staunchly reaffirming my
to Ryoma.
So I can get the arguments that Ryoma appearing in the Movie War technically being a clone as non-compromising. Where I absolutely can't agree with is that his final words to Takatora aren't mitigating.
To whit—Ryoma is a character absolutely fucking defined by his lack of conscience and human connection to anyone. Everybody and anything is a pawn to him—whether they're innocent people or Inves, literal monsters from the Helheim Forest, does not matter to him. Ryoma's behavior toward Takatora is a radical, singularly unique case for his character; he earnestly considers Takatora a friend before "Takatora's" betrayal, and his final words to Takatora being Villain Respect in this regard is significant because in this context it's absolutely devoid of the ill will he had toward Takatora entirely. He's acknowledging Takatora in the same terms he did when he still considered Takatora a friend.
It's not even necessarily contained to his last words, either—when Takatora reappears, Ryoma refers to him as an old friend in a way I would normally dismiss as Faux Affably Evil, except his reaction to Takatora's Breaking Speech and his final words to Takatora show it's evident he's being more genuine than he's ever been in the show prior.
I think Villain Respect isn't necessarily disqualifying, but when Ryoma's Graceful Loser moment toward Takatora contradicts so heavily toward his vile, selfish Misanthrope Supreme characterization beforehand (and, again, the show still portrays Ryoma's final death in a semi-sympathetic light, complete with the sad music and Takatora bidding a bitter "farewell" to his former friend), I genuinely just can't see that argument working against him.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 30th 2021 at 11:06:55 AM

Waking up after a long nap to see someone getting cut, always a pleasant experience
I guess cut Ryoma unless Cr0w says something different (though I highly doubt it)