During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the Mad Artist. Between Tousei and Ren?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Erina.
Yea there.
Salso just for Barago: Barago returns in the big movie. He turns out to be manipulating people to destroy Garo and completely wipe out existence, before being killed off by a massive combo of three Garos are once, Taiga, Koga and Raiga Saejima all together to obliterate him once and for all.
Goku Black
And he's now down for good
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wow, he took THREE heroes to kill him? Dude's a badass.
Definitely deserving of an expansion though.
EDIT: Also, shit, Moonbow Traveler is a film in theaters. Add Garo to the film page?
Edited by ACW on Apr 30th 2021 at 5:57:39 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Erina
By the way, I think that we need to somehow trim Moff Tiann Jerjerodd's entry from the Star Wars page. This is his current entry:
Personally, I don't think that a villain who commits one single crime (trying to blow up Endor) should have an entry that's so long. So, let me try to do it:
@Scraggle
I thought I remembered Zin vaporizing the scientist pretty cruelly and treating his Replicants pretty badly (though perhaps that’s just the Fridge Horror of him allowing his men to disintegrate and not caring) but I haven’t seen the film in years so you’re probably right
Speaking of Jonny Quest, I counted and the series has about 7 keepers. Any more from the comics or the Cover Up at Roswell game?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
rewrite looks good, but a part of me likes the mention of being able to bully the Rebellion in the original
Edited by NattesNovgrel on Apr 30th 2021 at 5:17:22 AM
The wifi here sucks
I like the rewrite as well but I also agree that the bullying part is kind of a good addition since it gives a bit of flavor.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, original entry's under 200.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, but it's still pretty long for a villain who commits a single crime. If he had more crimes, I would have been fine with the entry, but a lot of it is just an unnecessary description of how nasty Jerjerrod is without listing any actual crimes.
OK, let me try again:
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 30th 2021 at 3:33:20 AM
So...I hate to do this considering how bad the guy is, but I got a guy who may need to be cut and at the least definitely needs to be relitigated. I think we need to relitigate Ryoma Sengoku/Ryoma Wärring from Kamen Rider Gaim
I know earlier we decided specifically the V-Cinema titles in Kamen Rider were subject to sort of a vague canon at best; if they weren't, Masamune Dan would be out on the basis of a Heel–Face Turn that never happened in canon and Evolto's listing would be questionable. That said, I think I need to make a point that many of the Kamen Rider movies are canonical—many of them literally interrupt the plots of the series themselves with episodes meant to build up to the movies.
My issue with Ryoma specifically comes from the movie Kamen Rider X Kamen Rider Gaim & Gaim: Movie War Full Throttle. It's not that Ryoma doesn't keep in the series itself, but the issue is he has one redeeming quality that, while negated in-series, is brought back in Movie War Full Throttle. In the first twenty minutes of the movie, Ryoma is brought back as a robot by the movie's Big Bad, Megahex, and pitted against his old friend Takatora, the head of the Yggdrasil Corporation which Ryoma was a part of.
In the series, Ryoma genuinely saw Takatora as a friend and an ally until their viewpoints diverged—Ryoma specifically designed entire Rider suits for Takatora, genuinely panicked when an errant Rider test nearly cost Takatora his life, and generally saw Takatora deciding to devote himself to humanity's survival (which Ryoma could not give less of a shit about) as a "betrayal."
In the movie, after he's brought back, Takatora's Breaking Speech genuinely gets to Ryoma—he's unable to respond with anything but an angry and shocked Big "SHUT UP!"—and after Takatora finishes him off, Ryoma ultimately very pronounced Graceful Loser moment that ends with him recanting his ill will toward Takatora entirely. Ryoma is defined by his misanthropy, but Takatora is the one character who ever earned his true respect, and his final death has him acknowledging Takatora as a Worthy Opponent once and for all:
"Takatora. You really are amazing. Just as expected...from a man who once impressed me..."
Ryoma dying with a peaceful smile on his face and the general Alas, Poor Villain vibe he goes out on—earned or not—really contradicts a lot of Ryoma's earlier contradiction. But...on the other hand, there's literally zero concrete evidence that goes to proving this movie's status as non-canon to Gaim, and it builds upon a redeeming quality that Ryoma had to previously doff in the show itself. This is Ryoma's final chronological appearance in the series to date, and unless I'm missing something pretty big, this unfortunately seems like a pretty jarring case of Ryoma coming to terms with a redeeming quality just before his demise.
I'm gonna say cut. What do we say?
I hadn't seen the movie, but...yeah, cut.
cut Ryoma
The Emperor of Evil!
Cut Ryoma
Erina. Cut Ryoma.
Y'know, I think Jerjerrod's writeup is honestly fine as is; modified or not, the writeup isn't glaringly wrong at all. My biggest suggestion would just be to hack the first sentence about him "bullying with impunity" since the last sentence gets at that, and hack most of that quotation down to "green and living" like WatTambor's already done.
Sounds like a cut to me.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Goku Black
Isn't that Ryoma a robot created from Kouta's memories though unless I'm misrembering rather then the real deal ?
Edited by miraculous on Apr 30th 2021 at 3:49:06 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frank, Gormlaith and Erina
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ryoma
@Mir: He is, but my hesitation with that argument is that it's essentially the same deal as Ridley getting cloned in Metroid: Other M: while they might be technically separate characters, the movie itself portrays the resurrected Ryoma as one in the same with his pre-deceased counterpart and it portrays his character development as a natural evolution of an already-existing redeeming quality.
I wouldn't make such a big deal if they emphasized that the clone was a different person than the original, but the Ryoma that appears in Movie War is treated as the Ryoma resurrected, in spirit and all, and continuing on from the arc the original Ryoma had left with his own death.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 30th 2021 at 4:56:29 AM
I’m going to vote “keep” on Ryoma.
Ryoma may have some care for Takatora, but it’s not enough to stop him from trying to kill him. Even discounting that though, I believe Ryoma in the Movie War is a mechanical imitation of the real Ryoma created by Megahex, or at the very least, it’s ambiguous if they’re the same entity. The wiki lists show Ryoma as a different character from Movie War Ryoma, so unless it’s confirmed that the two are the exact same being I don’t think you can apply Mecha-Ryoma’s attributes to show Ryoma.
EDIT: Also, if Mecha Ryoma was created from someone’s memories as opposed to just copy pasting Ryoma’s personality over I don’t think he can be considered the exact same Ryoma as in the show, as that’s just recreating Ryoma based on what someone else remembers of him than his personality in full.
Edited by ReddishGuy1 on Apr 30th 2021 at 4:08:44 AM
Just imagine something here.
The wifi here sucks
Cut Ryoma and upon further thought I don't think the rewrite is necessary.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Never been one to trust wikis. I've really gotta lean cut if the indication from the film itself is the character is basically the same being just back as a clone rather than a copy who's a separate character.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Crow's our main Kamen Rider guy around here, so what say him?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Erina
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."