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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#258103: Apr 27th 2021 at 3:37:53 PM

[tup] to Alexei Gatsev, Beth Tanner and Pharaoh Venom.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#258104: Apr 27th 2021 at 3:42:13 PM

While the story is short, i decided to give this candidate a chance anyway to get this over with, the comics name is The Adventures of Mighty Max btw

My second and last candidate is Master Brain from "Nuts With Bolts"

Who is Master Brain?

Upon the early morning in the middle of London, the supposed toy android activated and started blasting everythin, going on a rampage through the city. Virgil and Norman take Mighty Max to investigate the matter and tracked down the source in the old closed toy factory plant. As they venture there, they are "greeted" by a large robot, who attacks them, but Norman managed to destroy it. As they go deeper they confront Master Brain, who was the true creator of the March-A-Tron robot toys and specifically programmed them to be deadly and destructive and planned to unleash them upon the world as soon as it manages to deliver and stockpile them in warehouses and toy stores across the entire world. Gleefully revealing its scheme of using the robots to exterminate humanity on the planet and appoint himself as the new "ruler of the world", since it considers itself to be "pure, perfect machine", Master Brain revealed that the robots rampaging through the London was an accident, since they were activated a little too early (although it didn't care about the fact that they did), on which Max responded by figuring out how to activate them earlier, causing the robots to attack Master Brain, forcing it to destroy them to save itself and flee, which deactivated all its robots through the world.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. Nothing implies it was programmed to be this way or any lack of agency.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

One of the very few villains in the comic, whose plan involved a bodycount of all humanity, since it planned specific genocide of an entire species, deliberatly setting up it's macines and planning to activate them across the entire world and kill off the entire human race. I think he stands out.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258106: Apr 27th 2021 at 3:44:54 PM

Here’s what’s in the drafts right now:

  • Baby Driver: Bats, a member of Doc's robbery crew, is an aggressive thug with a firm belief that Murder Is the Best Solution. Bats guns down or tries to gun down anyone who does—or doesn't—get in the way of his heists, from security guards to normal people who try to fight back, and in one case triggers a massacre against a friendly arms dealer and all of his men. When it's revealed the arms dealer men were undercover cops on Bats' own side, Bats lies and claims they shot first. Even willing to extend his murderous tokens to people outside his job, Bats is heavily indicated to have murdered a gas store attendant because he didn't want to pay; nearly kills Baby's girlfriend, Debora, for the same reason at a diner; and even beats up Baby's handicapped foster father just to mock the kid.

Here’s what I’m currently adding:

  • Baby Driver: Bats, real name Leon Jefferson III, is a member of Doc's robbery crew and an aggressive and psychotic thug with a firm belief that Murder Is the Best Solution and taking every chance he can get to see it through. Bats guns down or tries to gun down anyone who does—or doesn't—get in the way of his heists, from security guards to normal people who try to fight back, and in one case triggers a massacre against a friendly arms dealer and all of his men. When it's revealed the arms dealer men were undercover cops on Bats' own side, Bats lies and claims they shot first. Even willing to extend his murderous tokens to people outside his job, Bats is heavily indicated to have murdered a gas store attendant because he didn't want to pay; nearly kills Baby's girlfriend, Debora, for the same reason at a diner; and even beats up Baby's handicapped foster father just to mock the kid.

Anybody else seen Voyager? I’m seeing it at the movies right now.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 27th 2021 at 4:19:11 AM

Tundraful Since: Apr, 2021
#258107: Apr 27th 2021 at 3:49:00 PM

Curious question from a new comer. As a fan of Alice in Wonderland, I was wondering if any evil residents of Wonderland in some adaptations of the story could qualify? I’m aware they technically don’t exist, but some adaptations give them characters and arcs. That’s not even getting into the times it’s implied Wonderland is real.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#258108: Apr 27th 2021 at 3:56:28 PM

[up] It depends on the context and the damage the villain does within Wonderland, given that it is real. There's probably novellas, fanfics, or short stories somewhere where one of the antagonists would count.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#258109: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:12:41 PM

Change the pothole around Bats's name to Ax-Crazy and it looks good.

Yes to Master Brain.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258110: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:18:44 PM

[up]Done. Anyone see my question about Voyagers?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#258111: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:20:23 PM

Yes to Brain.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#258112: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:23:35 PM

Just gonna swing back in to say: future I'm not sure if you're a big fan of the character, film or what but you're bulking that entry way too much. Adding his real name is fine but "and taking every chance he can get to see it through" is just redundant to put right after Scraggle already having that he believes Murder Is the Best Solution; "and psychotic" is likewise unnecessary. Is there a reason things that are frankly just flourishes need to be crammed in?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#258114: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:32:37 PM

@43 Personal choices. I’ll revert them and just keep in the bit about his real name though.

Done:

  • Baby Driver: Bats, real name Leon Jefferson III, is a member of Doc's robbery crew and an aggressive thug with a firm belief that Murder Is the Best Solution. Bats guns down or tries to gun down anyone who does—or doesn't—get in the way of his heists, from security guards to normal people who try to fight back, and in one case triggers a massacre against a friendly arms dealer and all of his men. When it's revealed the arms dealer men were undercover cops on Bats' own side, Bats lies and claims they shot first. Even willing to extend his murderous tokens to people outside his job, Bats is heavily indicated to have murdered a gas store attendant because he didn't want to pay; nearly kills Baby's girlfriend, Debora, for the same reason at a diner; and even beats up Baby's handicapped foster father just to mock the kid.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 27th 2021 at 4:34:17 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258116: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:38:24 PM

Hey I did say I was gonna check on those Mighty Max comics to see if anyone might count so thanks for saving me the trouble Very Vile, yes to the Mighty Max Duo.

Mind if I'll find a good image for the Mighty Max Monster page?

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 27th 2021 at 7:39:17 AM

Tundraful Since: Apr, 2021
#258117: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:44:45 PM

Okay, I think I might have someone.

What is the Work? Alice in Wonderland (2010) is a sort of sequel to either the book original Disney movie. In this work, it is confirmed near the end that Wonderland does exist, so this character is real enough!

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done? The Knave of Hearts, real name Ilosovic Stayne, is The Dragon to the Red Queen, and the most active threat to Alice and her friends. Assisting in the slaughter of Mad Hatter's village during The Horovendoush Day, stealing the Vorpal sword so the Jobberwocky can’t be slain and rendering the Red Queen’s takeover inevitable.

When Alice returns to Wonderland years after the first time, now a young woman, Knave attacks her, the Caterpillar, White Rabbit, Dormouse, Dodo, Talking Flowers, and Tweedledee and Tweedledum alongside an army of Card Guards and the Bandersnatch. The Knave steals Caterpillar’s future telling scroll, the oraculum, and brings it to the Red Queen, who learns of the prophecy of Alice killing her Jabberwocky and overthrowing her. She sends the Knave and Bayard, a bloodhound Knave is holding the lives of his wife and puppies over his head to force him to track the Red Queen's enemies.

Knave then confronts The Made Hatter, March Hare, and Dormouse while they have a shrunken Alice hidden in a teapot. Growing annoyed with their Obfuscating Insanity, he strangled The Mad Hatter and reminds them the Queen will have their heads if they’re lying about knowing Alice’s whereabouts. He leaves when Bayard pretends to find Alice’s scent.

In probably the biggest What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? moment I’ve ever seen in film, when Knave encounters a giant Alice, he pins her to a wall and speaks about how he likes largeness, clearly trying to rape her. When the 9ft Alice fights him off and a servant of the Queen sees his attempt infidelity (he is the Queen’s lover) he pins the blame on Alice, setting the Red Queen’s wrath upon her. Later attempting to kill Alice to retrieve the Vorpal Sword, but is stopped by a redeemed Bandersnatch.

At the end of the film, Knave leads the Red Queen forces against The White Queen’s, getting into a battle with the Mad Hatter, which he loses. Spared, but given Cruel Mercy by the White Queen, banished to spend all eternity handcuffed to The Red Queen. Tossing away any fake loyalty he had left, The Knave attempts to kill the Red Queen to spare himself of this fate, but is stopped by the Mad Hatter and left begging to be killed as he’s dragged away. In Alice Through the Looking Glass, it’s revealed the Queen killed him for the attempt on her life.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Excuse? None. He’s a selfish bastard loyal only to himself, only pretending to love the Red Queen, and perfectly to cheat on her and attempt to kill her. As I said before, Wonderland is confirmed to be real, so no “he’s not real” to worry about.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard? Now, The Red Queen is plenty cruel, having many "off with her head" moments and causing untold deaths in her time as ruler, but she genuinely loves the Knave and the sequel gives her some tragedy and redeeming qualities. However, the Knave neither has redeeming qualities and he lacks the power of the Queen. That said, he took part in the oppression of the people of Wonderland, leads The Red Queen’s forces in their attempt to slaughter the White Queen and her rebellious kingdom, and has an Attempted Rape in a kids' movie.

Final Verdict? I really feel the Attempted Rape is unique in both the setting and age rating of this film to help him stick out to me, so I’ll give him a [tup]. I’ll leave it to you guys decide, though.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#258118: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:47:36 PM

I am hesitant on Stayne since I have heard the Attempted Rape stuff is a slight exaggeration, but at the same time I do see he as a bunch of other atrociites so maybe he could still count.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#258119: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:48:07 PM

Abstain on the Knave.

Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#258120: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:54:21 PM

Abstain on Knave for now (though I might upvote later if I decide his crimes besides the following are bad enough), but are there any sources indicating that he attempted rape? Because for a Disney adaptation of Alice in Wonderland of all things, something like that would be a pretty big deal, yet from what I recall, the scene where he was supposedly making advances on Alice had zero indication of being attempted rape, and anything seeming like sexual assault was pure subtext.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#258121: Apr 27th 2021 at 4:58:57 PM

[tup] Master Brain

[tdown] Knave - the "attempted rape" is him cornering her to make a creepy pass at her iirc. Without that, he's a pretty standard villain imo.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Apr 27th 2021 at 4:59:09 AM

Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#258122: Apr 27th 2021 at 5:05:26 PM

(nevermind, wrong thread)

Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Apr 27th 2021 at 5:06:25 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#258123: Apr 27th 2021 at 5:09:14 PM

As an image for Mighty Max page, i think it can either be Talon devouring souls in his episode or anything from Skullmaster, because after bingewatching the episodes, nothing from the rest of the candidates seems worthy enough to be CM images:

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 27th 2021 at 3:11:10 PM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#258124: Apr 27th 2021 at 5:12:51 PM

I was considering Talon but I thought of giving Skullmaster a chance since he's the Big Bad after all. If not then I'll take a picture of Talon's soul draining instead.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#258125: Apr 27th 2021 at 5:20:17 PM

It's just that since we have Skullmaster's quote for the page, i thought that (to follow the tradition of quote and the image on CM pages being from different keepers, unless there is literally no other choice) we might need an image from a different keeper.


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