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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#257976: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:50:25 PM

Found this on Lex Luthor:

His post-crisis counterpart is not this, correct? Either way, I replaced it with Villain with Good Publicity.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 26th 2021 at 6:51:39 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#257977: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:51:21 PM

Just cut Selene for now from that

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257980: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:15:06 PM

Re-linking to my question on the previous page so it doesn't get lost

[up][up] & [down]: Selene was the unapproved entry ANewMan found three pages back

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 10:21:43 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#257981: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:19:19 PM

Yeah, who is Selene?

[up] IDK

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 26th 2021 at 7:19:46 AM

ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#257982: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:25:23 PM

[up][up]Web Original and The Neverkind Saga images are apparently fanarts, so if you can find a fanart of one of the villains it probably should be good.

EDIT: MLP have a webcomic example, if we decide that we want an image for the page, maybe we could see first there, to be clear I haven't read the webcomic and his worst acts could be under a Gory Discretion Shot, as I am who propose see there, if the thread decide use an image and agree with this I can read the comic tomorrow, I can't today because in my timezone is night and I have to go to sleep soon.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Apr 26th 2021 at 9:43:43 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#257983: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:32:26 PM

If someone really wants sure but last time I saw the thread electing what to do about the MLP fic entries it was pretty well to get them into a quarantine zone so the many of us who don't care about the franchise and even less about its fan fics didn't have to stare at the eyesores. I'm not going to stop anyone from digging for a fan pic but I don't think it's a top priority by any means. The other stuff though... sure, for the sake of presentation that could be fun.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257984: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:37:55 PM

I mean I'm fine with them having a header and quote. Don't really see a need to have an image since those are more obscure.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#257985: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:40:54 PM

Neverkind is an artwork commissioned and put up with permission, don't just grab any image you find without that

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257986: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:44:01 PM

I mean yeah, I'd get permission first, so if nothing else it wouldn't be up before the pages get locked tomorrow, I was mostly just wondering if the images had to be tied to a specific fic for a specific keeper. Like obviously I wouldn't propose a Neo pic since we don't have a version of her, but, for example, since we have one version of Watts, does any fanart of Watts become fair game as long as the art itself isn't tied to a specific fic where he doesn't keep?

I may be getting into semantics that we don't care about, but I wondered how exactly we work these rules in general and figured better safe than sorry.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 10:49:14 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#257987: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:54:32 PM

Hey guys. I figured I will let you know as well. I am not going to be here for a few weeks. I broke my leg, and need to focus on healing.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#257989: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:08:10 PM

[tup] Gulnar, Cassandra, and Brand. Abstain on the hillbillies, and isn’t Sister Jill on already?

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#257991: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:16:17 PM

[tup] to Cassandra Berkley, the Mr. Barron rewrite, and Brand.

As for the fan work images, I don't mind whatever we do and am open to anything.

[up][up][up][up] Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.

As for Zed and Maynard, both sides bring up good points and this is a pretty hard decision, but I'll lean [tup] on them. Here's the tally on them so far:

Yes note  (18)

No note  (7)

This will be continually updated as more people vote.

[down][down][down][down] Ah, sorry for missing that.

Edited by DrUnknown on Apr 27th 2021 at 8:13:09 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#257992: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:20:31 PM

[up][up][up] We have five Sister Jills, but not the one from the Go Go manga.

Hope your leg heals, Bull.

Edited by MasterN on Apr 26th 2021 at 8:20:58 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#257993: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:22:07 PM

[tup] Berkley, Brand, and to Poison Ivy. Thought about doing Ivy myself, but I had reservations. Seems they were unfounded all along.

[tdown] Zed & Maynard. To keep it short, I also feel there's too much of a stretch on their pattern for them to make it comfortably.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#257994: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:26:07 PM

I will admit that while I say no, I could go either way TBH

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#257995: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:31:41 PM

@Dr Unknown I switched to abstain a few threads ago.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 26th 2021 at 11:32:15 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#257996: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:34:19 PM

'Yes' to Cassandra, and get well soon, Bull!

Alright, last thing I'm gonna say on Zed and Maynard that I would like to be addressed... let's say, for the sake of argument, their Serial Rapist "pattern" is disregarded. I completely disagree, as I do feel there is enough of a pattern going on for them to attribute it especially since some folks are fine attributing supposed Offscreen Villainy patterns to other villains with even less proof, but for the sake of this discussion, let's pretend the pattern isn't there.

How do they still not land in heinousness? Pulp Fiction has several murderers, sure, but...no rapists, and no one seeking to make sex slaves out of two schmucks and repeatedly rape them, doing one totally onscreen. If they just ambushed a woman in an alley and raped her and nothing else, ok, fine, not pushing any heinous boundaries, but trying to legitimately keep two men as pets to rape and torment at their leisure—kicking things off by raping one partially onscreen while bragging that they'll follow up on the next—is a next level of heinousness even in a movie with a couple assassins and killers.

It's not like this is damn Criminal Minds filled with rapists... it's a movie that has some mobsters and hitmen killing each other, then out of nowhere these two sick fucks show up, capture two guys, and plan to rape them into being pets like the Gimp. And that's without the heavy proof of there having been past victims.

Please, someone, enlighten me. How does raping and trying to turn two poor schmucks into your sex slaves not stand out in a movie that doesn't otherwise have sexual assault crimes? I'm still maintaining that the pattern is more than enough there, but let's start with actually being objective here and figuring out how we're deciding that "violent rape, planned continuous rape and torment of two men" doesn't equal heinous enough in a movie where that's a totally unique crime for them.

Edited by Ravok on Apr 26th 2021 at 8:37:37 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257997: Apr 26th 2021 at 8:41:21 PM

Actually, that is a valid point.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#257998: Apr 26th 2021 at 9:16:42 PM

I’m agreeing with Ravok. There is definitely no one else who does anything that despicable and yeah, everyone else is a killer and no one else like them is a rapist (and especially not that kind of rapist either).

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#257999: Apr 26th 2021 at 9:20:53 PM

Leans [tup] to Pulp Fic rapists.

IPP Wick Check created.
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#258000: Apr 26th 2021 at 9:37:19 PM

Rest up Bull and get well soon!!

My vote doesn't change since the heinousness standard didn't affect my decision.


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