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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#257751: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:22:10 AM

[tup] to Ivy.

Why am I always page topper dammit

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 26th 2021 at 5:22:31 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257752: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:25:31 AM

~ACW: Should it be Monster.Fan Works RWBY or Monster.RWBY Fan Works?

Sure to Ivy

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 8:28:50 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257753: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:31:47 AM

Hmm, good question. I don't know.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257754: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:33:20 AM

I mean, Crossovers is "Fan Works Crossovers", so I guess we'd follow that and put the fan works first? But then the second one is technically more grammatically correct...

Personally I'd prefer "RWBY Fan Works" but I can go either way

Edit: Went ahead and made the page at Monster.RWBY Fan Works - if we object and make it the first one instead, it can easily be switched over and cut listed. I also added my Watts quote since no one seemed to object, and added a header:

With a setting as incredibly harsh yet unique as Remnant, it is perhaps no surprise that thousands of authors have chosen to write their own unique take on the world, its characters, and their actions. Among this incredibly varied group of works come these despicable villains, whether they're Cinder Fall, original characters, or others.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 8:52:12 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257756: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:55:45 AM

Cool. Then I'll go ahead and make Monster.My Little Pony Fan Works as well - I'll use Bull's quote, but they mentioned that they'd come up with a header so I'll leave that to them.

Welp, went to make the page and found out that its been previously cut and locked - I'll have to unlock it on the other thread first

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 8:56:22 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#257757: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:58:15 AM

I see no argument Ivy actually cares for Freeze. She just manipulates him and never expresses anything resembling care.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257758: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:58:55 AM

[up][up] Just make it a Sandbox and we can swap.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257759: Apr 26th 2021 at 5:59:42 AM

Good point - Sandbox.Monster My Little Pony Fan Works coming right up!

Sandbox is made - and BTW, the quote that's on the sandbox there will have to be removed from the main page.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 9:02:48 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257760: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:04:13 AM

Hmm, if she doesn't care for Freeze, and if there's no indication she was driven insane (and damned if I watch it to confirm)...I'll give a yes to Ivy. Add her to those who have both played a CM and fought one.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#257761: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:07:47 AM

[tup] to Frieza, Bats, the RWBY fanworks page and quote, and Ivy.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#257762: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:08:55 AM

ACW, this is getting pedantic on the "But was she driven insnae?! I said it already.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#257764: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:27:10 AM

[tup] to bats, Ivy and the Deus Ex quote

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#257765: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:29:54 AM

@ACW: I took it for Yandere thing. Then there’s the If I Can't Have You… when she unplugs his wife...

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#257766: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:35:27 AM

Deus Ex quote works.

Lighty, W just gave a tentative yes. He wasn't questioning moral agency question any more than he already has. There is no more need to be abrasive. We are all colleagues.

K4, that sounds about right.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 26th 2021 at 9:37:50 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257767: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:38:26 AM

What Sky said. I'm giving a yes.

RWBY and MLP pages look good; we just need a header for the latter (and I've got to de-pothole a few entries).

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#257768: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:38:56 AM

[tup] to Blofeld and Lar- uhhhhh, Wally and Calvin, rather, Ivy and Bats.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#257769: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:48:38 AM

Whoa. I guess I’ll say [tup] to Poison Ivy.

As I’ve mentioned before, I actually almost did Dr. Jason Woodrue about two years ago when the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies were re-released in theaters and I went to go see them all. Batman & Robin is definitely a memorably bad movie and probably a fun bad one, not like Fant4stic of course which...wasn’t fun at all.

I would bring up how she compares in heinousness to the Joker and Penguin since those movies are the same universe, but it’s probably a moot point though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 26th 2021 at 6:48:57 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257770: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:54:34 AM

Shit, now I'm curious about Woodrue. I'm guessing not heinous enough?

As for Ivy, heinousness seems fine, as according to the EP she seems to go full Omnicidal Maniac. Didn't Penguin "only" want to kill all the kids just in Gotham?

Also: "Fan Works based on My Little Pony (especially Friendship is Magic) have a surprisingly large amount of loathsome characters."

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#257771: Apr 26th 2021 at 6:57:24 AM

OK, I will give a tentative [tup] for Ivy.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#257772: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:02:03 AM

I wasn't abrasive to Wat, I just said that I don't think there's anything in the movie to suggest true care for Freeze.

Woodrue is definitely nowhere near bad enough, though. One murder, and all he wants to do is make big super soldiers and sell them to bad guys. Pretty basic stuff.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#257773: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:03:47 AM

I think Sky was talking about abrasive to me.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257774: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:04:34 AM

I think Sky was saying it about ACW and used W as a shorthand, but yeah, no real care for Freeze in my eyes

[nja]'d

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 26th 2021 at 10:24:45 AM

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#257775: Apr 26th 2021 at 7:04:53 AM

I have a different concern with Ivy - do we consider Batman and Robin to be in the same canon as the Burton Batman films they're usually grouped with? If so, I don't think she's nearly as heinous as Joker or Penguin and would vote no. If we separate them out by film, I'd give a weak yes.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Apr 26th 2021 at 7:05:01 AM


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