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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#257626: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:14:33 PM

I just noticed that the video game folder has over 50 examples!

Also, [tup] to ohansson, Joseph and Sheridan

Edited by WatTambor on Apr 25th 2021 at 2:15:27 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257627: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:15:05 PM

Well, I counted the ones nwot mentioned - correct me if I’m wrong here:

Animanga: 19

Video games: 54

Western animation: 24

For what it’s worth, Fanscription only has 11, so there’s precedent to give RWBY and MLP their own pages, maybe video games and western animation, but I’m not sure on animanga. Ultimately, I’m down for whatever’s easiest on you, ACW

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 25th 2021 at 5:20:30 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#257628: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:19:01 PM

Fanscription had even less when it got it's page. I remember us doing it, specifically to not do MLP and RWBY pages. I say just do the simplest/easiest on ACW, and just give those two their own pages. I don't like it, but that would clear up the most space on the pages.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#257629: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:20:36 PM

Honestly, maybe we should reevaluate some of RWBY and MLP examples to see if there are any that are worth cutting.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257630: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:21:21 PM

That was already done IIRC. I kind of think making subpages would save up some space.

Edited by AustinDR on Apr 25th 2021 at 2:22:00 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#257631: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:23:20 PM

[tup] to Wally, Johansen, and Joseph

I like the idea of splitting off the fanworks by source medium

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#257632: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:24:00 PM

Looking at the examples I don't see any that has an immediate reason to be cut.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#257633: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:26:50 PM

[tup] to creating separate pages for MLP, RWBY, video games and western animation

Honestly, it's a bit surprising that My Little Pony and RWBY have so many examples (especially MLP).

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#257634: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:31:30 PM

[up] Its always confused me why those two have so many when there are many even bigger franchises with way less.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#257635: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:32:50 PM

[up][up]Well you know how the fanbase can get (both in positive AND DEFINETLY negative terms)

At the very least I think a Western Animation page with the MLP and CL fics would make some room

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#257637: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:47:29 PM

[up][up] True, but it's still a bit confusing considering that, for example, a franchise like Star Wars that is more popular (and has a setting that's much more likely to feature a CM than My Little Pony) only has 2 examples and one of them was proposed by me.

Edited by WatTambor on Apr 25th 2021 at 2:47:53 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257638: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:50:47 PM

Going to say "yes" on Wally.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#257639: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:51:54 PM

Yes to Wally.

[up][up] Star Wars has four technically. Two are on the Fanscription page.

Anyways I just say go with whatever is easiest for ACW?

Edited by Bullman on Apr 25th 2021 at 4:52:56 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#257640: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:52:43 PM

After thinking it over, i decided to give it a shot with a third candidate from XIII video game, which is the final one

Who is Calvin Wax?

A counselor of President Galbrain, the current president of the US, but in reality the Number II of "The XX" organization, Calvin is The Dragon of Wally, who organizes and manages Wally's plan, while Wally himself leads from the shadows, since Wally refuses to reveal his true identity to anyone, aside from Calvin. Making sure that everyone else follows Number I's orders, Calvin leads the hunt after the false XIII on Number I's orders, which leads to numerous deaths across the game.

Showing himself in the final missions, Calvin at first seems like a friendly advisor to the president, before he reveals his true colors and has SPADS attack and massacre all the soldiers in the key military facility, where the operation "Total Red" took place, taking the president and every political figure there hostage (including Wally to cover up his involment and make him look "clean"), while also preparing to give the order (on Wally's signal) for the rest of the SPADS to invade the rest of key strategic places and kill everyone there, so that Wally could impose the martial law upon the country and turn it into totalitarian state.

When XIII foils this scheme, Calvin refused to allow him to beat the true identity of the Number I from him, activated the self-destruction sequence, which threatened to not only kill off anyone still alive at the facility, but also everyone around it, since the base was filled with nukes, and shoot himself in the head. All this he did despite knowing that Wally was still inside the facility. Ofcourse XIII managed to stop it from exploding and save the day.

(12:03 time mark for him activating the self-destruct sequence)

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

While the situation with him killing himself to avoid revealing the true identity of Number I, would have been the redeeming sight of loyalty, him activating the self-destruct sequence with Wally (aka Number I) still inside (something that he should be aware of, since he saw him there and met him personally) and he would have been killed in an explosion along with everyone else, which showed that Calvin did this more out of spite than loyalty.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Organizes and manages Wally's plan to turn America into totalitarian state in a bloody coup, which would have caused death of countless people, leads the SPADS into slaughtering every soldier in the facility and activated the self-destruct sequence, which would have killed the survivors and everyone around the base. Also, organized a hunt after the false XIII, which led to death of dozens of people. I think he passes.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#257641: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:53:04 PM

[up][up][up] Certain continuities tend to attract more writers as well. Star Wars is more popular, but its fans tend to trend away from writing the sort of fanfic we need here

Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 25th 2021 at 5:53:20 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257642: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:54:25 PM

Agreeing with Bull that I'll go with whatever ACW decides to do.

And for what it's worth, the thing with Star Wars is that it already has so many canon keepers and its standard is so jacked that fan works aren't likely to stand out in comparison - most that I've seen just recontextualize a keepers already existing crimes without adding any real new ones. RWBY meanwhile has a small amount of villains and there's so much world that hasn't been explored yet, so world-ending threats can fall to the same three or four people or original characters can be created and they'll all stand out.

[down] I meant that the canon keepers do so much already that making them stand out in comparison is near impossible, but I understand the confusion

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 25th 2021 at 6:01:47 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#257643: Apr 25th 2021 at 3:00:49 PM

[up] I don't think the heinous standard would be a problem don't we judge Fan Works on their own rather than the heinous standard of the franchise they come from.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#257644: Apr 25th 2021 at 3:05:58 PM

[tup] to Calvin Wax

@Bullman

I had actually forgotten about the 2 Fanscription Palpatines. However, we also have Palpatine from the Star Wars/Halo crossover, so technically it could be argued that we have 5 keepers (and, unsurprisingly, 4 of them are Palpatines).

@Starcrusher

Yeah, that's actually a good point I haven't thought about. Fanfics tend to be on a more personal level for the most part while Star Wars has such a huge heinous standard that the villain needs to blow up entire planets to stand out. This is why it would also be hard to write a Warhammer 40k fanfic with a CM.

@Ordeaux 26

We still take into account the canon heinous standard. We just tend to be a bit more lenient when it comes to fanfics and this is why we have approved Trogen from a Dragon Ball fanfic.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#257649: Apr 25th 2021 at 3:20:45 PM

[tup] Wally and Calvin (but no Hobbes)

It's Spooky Month!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

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