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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#257051: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:13:40 PM

Googling

I think scar last came up via Gianthelvian in 2015. He was approved in 2014.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 21st 2021 at 2:14:07 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#257052: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:16:26 PM

Okay. Added the Darkseid quote to drafts.

I would be cool with a note being added to Ghetsis to clarify. The other things I am unsure about.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 21st 2021 at 4:20:34 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#257053: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:23:05 PM

I think pretty much everyone at this point know that you need to have a solid reason for proposing a character from a comedy show at all, a note for Krabs seems irrelevant.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#257054: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:25:27 PM

[tup] to Drac and Darkseid

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#257055: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:28:30 PM

The theatre version of Scar came up recently but that got squashed pretty quick since his one additional act is an Attempted Rape - I don't think an NA entry is really necessary there.

And I'd be cool with the Ghetsis specification, like we did with Jurassic Park.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257056: Apr 21st 2021 at 2:41:24 PM

I mean, sure a mention on Ghetsis counting in the manga is fine. The ones on Scar and Krabs are unnecessary imo.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#257057: Apr 21st 2021 at 3:21:16 PM

Down for Ghetsis's addition thing.

Hey, has anyone discussed Project Altered Beast? Y'know, that Darker and Edgier reboot that exists for some reason?

Anyone mind if I take a crack at it?

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 21st 2021 at 3:21:57 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#257059: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:00:24 PM

[tup] to Cypher, Irendrit, Judge Frank Wallace, Darkseid and Dracula.

Welcome back Polar.

Jumbo: Okay looking forward to that.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#257060: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:01:39 PM

Go on ahead Dood

I don’t remember if any one answered, but is anyone going to do Kark?

TadiTadTa The Dark Priest himself from Probably Side 3 Since: Nov, 2020
The Dark Priest himself
#257061: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:11:25 PM

Just a reply to a question, asides from Zaboera, personally I think Vearn, Kill-Vearn and maybe Flazzard also might be possible CM( Not sure if Flazzard is heinous enough though )

Edited by TadiTadTa on Apr 21st 2021 at 7:12:30 PM

I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#257062: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:32:45 PM

Quote is added.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#257063: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:37:08 PM

I just noticed that a lot of the characters on the Never Again list also haven't been a problem for a long time. Examples of this include Hopper, Hot Coldman, Turbo (Wreck It Ralph), some of the Family Guy characters (this one was bad enough to cause edit wars), Bellatrix, Satan (the Bible), and maybe Oogie Boogie. I feel Mr. Krabs was more than problematic enough to stand alongside them. Just because most of us know not to propose Eric Cartman (for a good example), doesn't mean it's not important to remind people.

Speaking of Cypher, I'd like to talk about the quote on the Disney page. As a Gravity Falls fan, I like that Bill Cipher has the quote. However I don't think that one's the best choice. I feel we're forgetting famous quote of his that's shorter and far more sadistic (the kinda thing only a Complete Monster would say). I don't know how to format the quotes though. "I Have some children I gotta make into corpses!"

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#257064: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:39:32 PM

[up] The never again list is the exact reason they have never been a problem in a while.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 21st 2021 at 5:39:44 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#257065: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:58:02 PM

They hadn't been brought up for considerably a good long while. Don't understand where the problem is.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#257066: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:22:18 PM

I'm fine with the Ghetsis rewrite but honestly I don't think the list really warrants a change, it's for characters where them getting mentioned makes people upset (like the comedy show examples and Oogie Boogie) or have been discussed to death (like Ghetsis and Griffith) and we put a lot of thought into who goes on the list.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#257067: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:26:36 PM

Now for my writeup

  • Zack Snyder's Justice League: Darkseid, once known as Uxas, is the dark ruler of Apokolips hellbent on finding the Anti-Life Equation to subjugate all life in the Multiverse. To this end, Darkseid conquers 100,000 worlds and terraforming them into a new Apokolips, cleansing them with fire and turning its inhabitants into soulless slaves aware but without freedom. He would later invade Earth learning it contains the Anti-Life Equation and tries to terraform it only to be defeated and driven back. Darkseid would later banish Steppenwolf from Apokolips, forcing him to conquer thousands of planets should he ever want to return. Upon learning that Steppenwolf found Anti-Life, he orders him to scorch the planet, when Steppenwolf failed he simply crushes his decapitated head. In a Bad Future, Darkseid kills most of the Justice League, brainwashed Superman into being his servant, and reduce the Earth into a barren wasteland.

Is it good?

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 21st 2021 at 9:28:16 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#257068: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:32:46 PM

WISE FROM YOUR GWAAAAVE!

What's the work?

Project Altered Beast is a Darker and Edgier reboot of the Altered Beast arcade game that, to put it loosely, adapts the game to a more modern setting.

The plot is this: You, a guy named Luke, are the third created "Genome-Cyborg", a human that can turn into various creatures for combat. Recently, a gas used to mutate animals is released, which either infect and mutate others or has them killed by the resulting mutants, resulting in a ravaged city. Aided by the mysterious Anastasia, it's up to you to find the seeming cause of the outbreak, the first GC Brad, and stop the gas from infecting the world.

...Except that Brad isn't the culprit. Y'see, he's actually trying to stop the gas as well, and while he still dislikes you for overshadowing him, he's also just trying to stop the guy being manipulated by the true villain, who set it up so that the two would try to kill each other. Who's that, you may ask?

Who is Anastasia?

Your own ally, Anastasia, who masterminded the whole massacre just to become the ultimate Genome-Cyborg.

What's she do?

Here's the cutscene where she reveals her true colors, for further investigation.

Some backstory: she was one of the three GC's augmented by the creator of the Genome, having volunteered for the project. She was the second one, meant to see if they could basically stuff multiple animal DNA into one GC. However, as soon as Luke was created, she and the first GC, Brad, were forgotten by List, who saw Luke as his ultimate creation. Brad ended up resenting Luke, while Ana... didn't take it very well.

Becoming mad with jealousy, she decides to cook up a plot to absorb Luke and become "The ultimate Genome Cyborg", alongside getting revenge on the facility as well. To this end, she manages to unleash the Genome Gas, which mutates creatures into hostile mutants, onto the facility and the nearby city, mutating numerous creatures and destroying the city and its inhabitants. Afterwards, she then takes advantage of Luke's sudden amnesia, telling him that Brad, who's actually trying to stop her scheme, was the one that caused the outbreak, tricking Luke into trying to kill him for her. In the process, he encounters mutants a plenty, as well as a barren and destroyed city, its inhabitants heavily implied to have been killed by the mutants.

After Brad manages to spill the beans about Ana, also getting over his envy of Luke in the process, Luke confronts Ana, who admits that she was the one behind the infection and explains everything I already talked about, all to gain the attention of Dr. List. Notably, she has a few semi-mutated scientists alongside her, alive but in complete suffering, including List himself, with Ana outright taunting him about how "Perfect" Luke was. She then reveals that this whole thing was an overelaborate plot to lure in Luke and absorb him, becoming the ultimate GC in the process. She then mutates into a horrific monstrosity dubbed "The Chimera", assimilating Dr. List and the other scientists and attempting to do the same to Luke before Brad swoops in and saves him, with Ana remorselessly killing him in response. You and Ana then duke it out, Luke ultimately coming out victorious and leaving the destroyed facility.

Is she Heinous?

Organising a citywide mutant outbreak where living organisms are either painfully mutated or killed by said mutants, just to absorb Luke and become all powerful, simply because of jealousy? She clears it. The game makes it clear that humans were transformed by the gas, and said transformations are shown to be incredibly painful as well. Don't forget about the semi-mutated scientists.

Migitating Factors?

Here's where the main issue crops up: if she's sympathetic enough with her backstory. Lemme deconstruct it:

First off, it's shown that she doesn't really care for anyone. She hates Luke's guts obviously, she openly sets up Brad to be killed by Luke and kills him herself when he intervenes in the final boss, she focuses all of the forgotten shit on her instead of Brad, and her need to prove herself to List is less like she cares for him as much as it is fixing her broken ego, being perfectly fine with torturing and taunting the poor guy, then latter assimilating him with zero remorse.

The biggest problem would be if she'd sane enough, since it's clear that she has a few screws loose. However, not only are Brad and Luke perfectly sane, nothing implies that she went through any real torment, just being simply forgotten and ignored by List. Even Brad was able to grow out of his jealousy eventually, Ana just snapped for the flimsiest reason. That, and she's shown to be sane enough to both manipulate Luke and Brad and realize that what she's doing is wrong, completely shrugging it off for revenge. And no, the game doesn't treat her motives as justifying, obviously.

TDLR, the excuse is there, but most of the evidence provided shows that all of this was her own control.

Overall?

Unsure TBH. Any thoughts?

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 21st 2021 at 6:46:49 AM

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#257069: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:52:11 PM

Yes to Frank, Darkseid... heck, everyone listed after Irendri. Including Anastasia

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#257070: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:54:47 PM

Hmmm, sure to Anastasia

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#257071: Apr 21st 2021 at 7:00:32 PM

Yeah to Anastasia but I don't think any more of the NA list suggestions are necessary: that thing is borderline a wall of shame for subjects people wouldn't shut up about and while some of the cases are already there are worth leaving since it's proven to dissuade those instances people just wouldn't let go of I see no reason to elect random characters that haven't been brought up since 2015 and suddenly decide they need to be tacked on. It's a list we try to keep trim for a reason.

Also I don't see the need to change from the Bill quote, it gets the point across.

Edit: Actually lemme do some more digging, watching your cutscene through her thing with Eric is weird.

Edited by 43110 on Apr 21st 2021 at 10:07:23 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#257073: Apr 21st 2021 at 7:10:55 PM

Okay watching that through as she dies it sounds like she sombrely says Eric's name. Heavily leaning no now on the same grounds we said no to that version of Lex Luthor even after he killed the woman he was obsessed with.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#257074: Apr 21st 2021 at 7:17:15 PM

I'm sorry, but a single, barley audible grunt that might not even be her saying his name doesn't imply she would care for him. Nothing else ever even hints that she cares for him, so why should her literally just saying a name disqualify her if she already tormented and assimilated him in the most painful way possible?

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 21st 2021 at 7:22:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#257075: Apr 21st 2021 at 7:18:36 PM

So I'm actually allowed to vote the way I would like and you freaking out over me feeling something actually won't change my opinion. Getting sick of you throwing these fits Dood.

Right before the final boss she goes off on how she'll make him proud so acting like there's no reason to think she'd mutter his name as she dies is either missing part of the cutscene or purposefully misleading.

Edited by 43110 on Apr 21st 2021 at 10:20:39 AM


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