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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#256876: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:30:38 PM

I think I'm leaning [tup] with Cypher, but if I remember correctly his gripe with Morpheus is a valid example of Villain Has a Point. Morpheus is extremely vague about the real world and what it entails.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#256877: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:33:39 PM

Morpheus isn't shy that what they'll deal with is a struggle.

But even then, Cypher's entirely selfish about it. He hasn't lost people, he's not sad about people who've died. He just wants to be important and comfortable and he's willing to kill everyone in Zion for it.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#256878: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:34:29 PM

I agree on him, having forgotten just how much he knew about Smith's plan. Morpheus might be vague but I think the film makes it clear enough that before all else Cypher just wants a life of comfort and ease at the expense of... well, everything.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#256879: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:36:40 PM

Yeah, exactly. Cypher knows fully well what he's doing when Smith is asking to get to Zion.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#256880: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:36:43 PM

[tup]Cypher & 43’s Deathstroke rewrite

EDIT: forget this

Edited by nwotyzal on Apr 20th 2021 at 8:39:18 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#256881: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:36:53 PM

Eh, sure to Selfish Cypher.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#256882: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:37:16 PM

Yeah I don't think it's mitigating, I'll give a more wholehearted [tup] then.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256883: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:39:23 PM

Yes to 43's rewrite. And yes to Cypher.

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#256884: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:42:33 PM

[tup] to Pwami, Cypher. Surprised we overlooked the latter for two decades?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#256886: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:47:00 PM

[tup] to Dahak, Pwami, the Slade Wilson/Deathstroke rewrite, and Cypher.

[tdown] to Not-Them.

Cut Joker.

[down][down] I'd say, so long as the CM is clearly shown to be the one doing the crime, then it's fine for a non-CM to be present. Sorry for missing that question.

Edited by DrUnknown on Apr 20th 2021 at 8:56:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#256888: Apr 20th 2021 at 8:52:05 PM

[tup] Cypher

Also, sorry in advance, but did anyone answer this question?

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#256890: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:08:26 PM

Sure to Cypher - how'd we miss that one for twenty years?

And I'm gonna agree with Unknown - as long as the CM is clearly the one really doing the act, then a non-CM helping out from the side should be fine in an image.

I previously asked how much we maintain the Write a Complete Monster page as a group - does anyone have an answer to that? Even if the answer is "we don't", I'd appreciate hearing it before I make any edits to it.

[down] Well there we go, thanks [lol]

[down][down] Oh, haha, I wasn't saying the thread is twenty years old, I was saying the movie is, and he's such an obvious keeper in hindsight I don't know how we missed it [lol]

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 20th 2021 at 12:17:55 PM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#256892: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:10:32 PM

Yeah that’s a clear [tup] to Cypher. I remember him being pretty nasty.

First for Joe Pantoliano?

Also STAR, we haven’t been active for 20 years. Haha. This particular thread is about a decade old. I’ve only been here on the threads myself since 2015 myself.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 20th 2021 at 9:15:23 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#256893: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:14:29 PM

Going to Abstain on Cypher since I don't really know what to think about this.

By the way, I have an idea for Write a Complete Monster Treat with caution section, Maleficent, since she is a very popular villain of a villain who is presented as being a CM but anything that could possibly make her heinous enough is completely offscreen or just implied.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#256894: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:17:21 PM

Whoa, a Matrix keeper? After all these years? Sure to Cypher.

It's Spooky Month!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#256895: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:17:48 PM

Question: is anyone else gonna handle Darkseid from the Snyder Cut? I'm actually about to watch the movie with my brother so I'm just wondering if no one is gonna handle him I might do Darkseid (if he counts there that is).

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#256896: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:19:34 PM

@ DrUnknown & STARCRUSHER99 Thank you, that's what I figured as well. A bit of a shame, because I found this image and thought it would be really good if Neo wasn't in the shot.

[up][up][up] Maleficent is shown to care about her pet raven onscreen, so I don't know if that would be the best example.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Apr 20th 2021 at 10:19:41 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#256897: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:20:55 PM

[up] Oh yeah forgot about that never mind then.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#256898: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:23:31 PM

[up][up] Honestly my issue there isn't even Neo in the shot, it's that they're so far in the back I can barely even tell who we're looking at.

[down] I'm looking at both pages, and I don't really see it - I might just not be paying enough attention, but can you point to some specific things that were supposedly plagiarized? Literally right after I typed that I found at least one sentence copied and pasted verbatim: "Zaboera had the upper hand and the heroes were unable to damage him at all"

And a second: "Gravely wounded and having used up all magic, Zaboera tried to crawl away, only to be caught by Crocodine."

And a third: "Zaboera later was forced by Hadlar to help him in defeating Matoriv when he was trying to flee".

Soooooooo what do we do here?

[down][down] Malleo Weegee

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 20th 2021 at 12:50:58 PM

TadiTadTa The Dark Priest himself from Probably Side 3 Since: Nov, 2020
The Dark Priest himself
#256899: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:24:51 PM

Hello, just noticed that the CM proposal for the Adventure of Dai villain Zaboera has some part that is plagarized from Zaboera's page on Villains Wiki, just want to point that out. Here is the link to Zaboera's page for reference: https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Zaboera Here is the link to Zaboera's CM proposal:https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=9889#comment-247223

The entire part of “Zaboera was left fighting the heroes and he suddenly used some magic balls to kill his defeated minions, combining and controlling their corpse into the monstrous hyperzombie in it. Zaboera proudly said that with the hyperzombie, he could use the power of a hyperdemon without transforming into a hyperdemon himself, much to the heroes' disgust.” is plagiarised from the page I made too (Yes I am Dark Priest Hargon on VW)

Edited by TadiTadTa on Apr 21st 2021 at 12:44:37 AM

I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#256900: Apr 20th 2021 at 9:49:00 PM

Remind me, who proposed Zaboera?


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