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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#256377: Apr 17th 2021 at 8:55:53 AM

[tup] Brainiac

When you're so bad that you count as CM even on games aimed at 4 years old coolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcool

I love seeing is his "Green Man" design, I love that one. Gonna get that game for my nephews

[tdown] Dark Danny. Knight of Cerebus? Yes, Pass the Heinous standard? Honestly, Yes. He was moral agency? Nope

Watch me destroying my country
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#256378: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:00:11 AM

Thinking about it more I will give a [tdown] Dark Danny, I'm still not convinced he is not heinous enough but the Moral Agency stuff is very convincing.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#256379: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:12:33 AM

Thanks falcon, in that case Hazel is currently keeping, if only slightly especially thanks to the below votes

6 cutsnote 

11 keepsnote 

7 abstainsnote 

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 20th 2022 at 10:02:14 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#256380: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:16:50 AM

Keep Hazel based on your assessment

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#256381: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:18:44 AM

Keep hazel

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#256382: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:22:09 AM

@Robert Funny thing we actually had an EP for a Bob the Builder character who tried flooding a city which was a legitimate contender that warranted a discussion (he didn't count due to the effects of the flood not being explicit enough)

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#256383: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:26:25 AM

Keep Hazel

Cut Ivo and Dark Danny

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#256384: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:28:15 AM

[tup] to Brainiac. As for Hazel... I guess, we should keep him.

Edited by DrScavenge27 on Apr 17th 2021 at 9:32:30 AM

RK93 Since: Aug, 2020
#256385: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:36:02 AM

Ok so I mentioned SpongeBob as a joke but apparently in one of the comics there's a Kraken who ate all the citizens of Bikini Bottom and tried to go even higher in his body count (which already reached dozens). While I have heavy doubts that he's a CM, this is shockingly dark for a series like this. There's apparently a video about the two-parter where he appears so I will watch it and see if he qualifies.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#256386: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:37:16 AM

[up] If you want to propose, you should actually read the comic

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#256387: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:40:14 AM

Didn't someone try to propose the Kraken and it downvoted or something?

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#256388: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:40:56 AM

[up][up][up]funny thing, there is a technical Spongebob keeper we have

[up]I think someone tried to but the post is blanked now

Edited by nwotyzal on Apr 17th 2021 at 9:48:41 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#256389: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:51:31 AM

Gonna say keep Hazel and IIRC the issue with the Kraken was he's listed on whatever it is again Villain's Wiki calls their equivalent to this trope and someone wanted him listed being influenced by that label but from the EP it seemed his villainy was embellished upon as opposed to truly meeting our criteria. Kinda wish the EP hadn't been blanked, as we've asked tropers not to do countless times now for the sake of leaving debates whole... before we do him again I'd like to be sure it's really a new argument for a villain I'm 99% sure I'll be downvoting.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#256390: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:52:50 AM

Are we sure this played seriously. It's spongebob.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#256391: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:53:32 AM

Wouldn't think so.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#256392: Apr 17th 2021 at 9:58:07 AM

Anywho I think the Kraken is at least worth an EP, so that we can read it and see what we think of him counting

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#256393: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:00:19 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't mind for an EP on Kraken to at least give him a chance in my opinion.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#256394: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:06:57 AM

Power did you get to Brainiac's stuff in the comics.

I think most of us are waiting on that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#256395: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:08:01 AM

I'm still reading the comic, please be patient, I'm at issue 7 right now.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#256396: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:08:48 AM

Sorry. How long is this comic ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#256397: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:09:49 AM

18 issues with 23 pages each. So far Brainiac only appears once in a single issue talking with Lex Luthor about a greater threat and that's it so far.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 17th 2021 at 1:10:02 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#256398: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:21:57 AM

Based on what I’ve read, those things don’t sound like they should be things that work against Hazel. That said, I also don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge about it to have a more defined opinion.

My friend who I used to meet every other weekend? He and I are finally meeting up again tonight for the first time in over a year. I’m definitely excited for that.

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#256399: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:36:40 AM

Take your time Powermaster, it's all good.

I'll go back and look for the Hazel posts, not sure how I missed them.

Edit: abstaining on Hazel, since one of the points of contention is knowledge of a canon I'm unfamiliar with.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Apr 17th 2021 at 10:40:03 AM

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#256400: Apr 17th 2021 at 10:41:11 AM

I agree with Powermaster about Kraken.


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