During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Zsasz is very consistently portrayed as nothing but a monster. His drive to 'liberate' people comes off as little more than narcissism. He does it for the thrill as much as anything.
Hell, when he failed to kill Alfred, he has a freakout because he's already made the tally-mark scar on his own body and now he just 'feels wrong'.
Or his little orphan fighting ring...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Orphan fighting ring...yeesh. Anyway Lighty, I think you forgot something here 
And about Carver, does his character page need revising? It has him as a WIE. Of course the Even Evil Has Loved Ones is fake as mentioned in that entry.
edited 20th May '14 1:25:05 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@25509: That's actually a pretty good point about Majora, and I don't believe it's been mentioned before. I've never played the game but those quotes make it sound like the creature literally cannot comprehend good. Maybe it shouldn't count.
@25511: Good write-ups.
@25518: Good Senguji write-up.
@25522: Good Tortall verse write-ups and Crookshanks sounds like he counts. Just two recommendations: Rubinyan shouldn't be mentioned in Imajane's write-up since he doesn't count. Also, that bit about Skinner liking dogs should be removed since it's irrelevant.
@25565: While Carver is definitely a Knight Templar Social Darwinist, the Well-Intentioned Extremist bit should definitely be removed.
Re Final Fantasy: I'm going to vote down on President Shinra and Emperor Gesthal for not being heinous enough, and vote no on Exdeath for not having moral agency.
A total has-been.
President Shinra is basically a more evil Gozaburo Kaiba. Neither are fully characterized or on-screen enough to have a notable resume of heinous deeds, thus they can't quite make the cut for the trope. I still say Exdeath might have a chance if only we could find positive proof that his worst actions are entirely due to his choice rather than his nature.
edited 20th May '14 12:18:27 PM by ANewMan
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I removed the WIE part. BTW, I hope nobody minds, but I'm going to start gradually Sandboxing the pages into the "Title: Entry" format. Looks much cleaner that way (E.G. see the revised Video Games And Visual Novels page).
Interesting point on Majora. Reading this, seems like there's no definitive proof either way...
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Only knowing the general plot outline in FFVII, isn't President Shinra eclipsed by Sephiroth and his associates, including Hojo, fairly early on?
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
I think Rubinyan should probably be mentioned in some capacity since he's doing most of the stuff alongside her, and folks who frequent Tortall's page will probably add him there unless it's pointed out why he doesn't count. But will do on Pearl's.
We've had a few people question the necessity of having a director folder on the Film page. Since I originally made the folder, I thought I'd comment. I don't mind whether we keep or remove the folder, but whichever ends up happening, we probably should still have the Sergio Leone films grouped together.
edited 20th May '14 4:45:00 PM by TVRulezAgain
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I vote ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to keeping the directors together, FWIW.
I am going to say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to President Shinra, Exdeath and Emperor Gesthal.
I have got a question, how long do we wait in an ongoing story before we decided whether a villain is CM and long should we wait?
In the most recent episode of Avengers Assemble, the Red Skull intended to get rid of all of his allies and their minions in one fell swoop. He used the Cosmic Cube to open portals to other worlds so his allies and their mooks could conquer them, but those portals ware really designed to kill his allies, because after getting the Cosmic Cube, he wanted to be the sole ruler of the world and felt they were no longer necessary. Red Skull's allies were not nice people by strech of the imagination, but that seems like a nasty betrayal. He also fired two missiles at two different American cities to distract the Avengers while he stole the Cosmic Cube.
There is still one episode left season, can we make a decision on him after that episode airs or do we have to wait longer?
I wear no mask.
to President Shinra;
to keeping films grouped by director;
We should at least wait until the last ep of the season has aired to decide about Red Skull's inclusion, but we can still discuss him in the meanwhile.
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Although, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Red Skull gets a redeeming quality ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Oh definitely, he just got cosmic powers in the last episode, so he could cause a lot mayhem in the next episode. I'm just wondering when would it be okay to try add him, assuming he counts.
Well he just tried to murder all of his allies at once, so he could be the sole ruler the world, I think that may be him crossing the Moral Event Horizon line and removing any hint of a sympathetic element from him, all at once. So I doubt he will get a redeeming element anytime soon or ever.
Why on earth would you support grouping films by director? If there's a common continuity there, then fine, group them that way. But I don't understand why that folder has to exist, and I can't even conceive a passable argument for it.
I agree, it sets a bad precedent and it doesn't really make any sense to do it that way. What's wrong with doing it alphabetically like every other page?
Besides, "sorting by director" is nonstandard and much less understandable than alphabetic. Also, I don't see a good point to it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So then what to do about authors for Literature?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Same as for directors. I don't see a difference.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lost in Space
Sorting by author or director makes no sense.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
I gotta agree. Author/Director isn't really relevant. If two or more works are in the same media, they can be grouped together, since that still follows basic alphabetical order.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
@ 25571: If we split up the director's section, we should keep the Dollars Trilogy together, but move the other two elsewhere.
On sorting by Author/Director.
I wear no mask.
Well, seems the nays significantly outnumber the yeas, so the idea should probably be axed.
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
edited 19th May '14 9:44:53 PM by HamburgerTime
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."