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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#255601: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:19:27 PM

Keep Cinder and Watts.

[tup] to Xeraan

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#255602: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:42:15 PM

Keep Cinder and Watts for now, but I will say that if in the long run they end up not qualifying after all, it wouldn't feel like too big a surprise to me.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#255603: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:49:38 PM

I mean Watts is pretty much dead now. Unless that's a misdirection.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#255604: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:49:50 PM

Watts looks dead at the moment. So unless something really weird happens I doubt there will be major D Qs with him atleast.

[nja]

Edited by Snoketrope on Apr 10th 2021 at 7:50:33 AM

Bow to the Prototype
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#255605: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:21:08 PM

The only way Watts wouldn't count now is if he somehow returned or was outclassed enough.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#255606: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:31:56 PM

Alright, let's get this show on the road. I apologize for how long the mitigating factors section is, but quite frankly, this character has one of the worst pieces of video game writing I've ever seen attached to him, so I figured it was better to be thorough.

What is the work?

Mirror's Edge Catalyst is a Continuity Reboot of the original Mirror's Edge game, a game that's rather popular for its stylish parkour-based gameplay as well as the most beautiful dystopian city you've ever seen - the lovely city of Glass. The game follows Faith Connors, a Runner, whose job is primary based on mail carrying around this dystopian city, while she tries to gain enough money and capital to pay back Dogen, a crime boss she owes for a job she carried out in the prequel comic. Along the way, she uncovers a major conspiracy regarding the death of her parents and the city itself, and at the top of this conspiracy lies Gabriel Kruger, CEO of KrugerSec, de facto dictator of Glass, and the game's Big Bad.

Who is Gabriel Kruger? What does he do?

Before the game began, Kruger was the CEO of KrugerSec, the leader of the Conglomerate that slowly took over the city of Glass as it recovered from a civil war. Kruger lacked his father's basic compassion for humanity, and began slowly stripping away the rights of the citizens as he gained more power to ensure total control over the city. This culminated in a project he called Reflection, a microchip that would allow him to control the citizens' emotions, as well as implant a kill switch in everyone. This was a project that Faith's mother worked on as well until she realized its implications, at which point she defected from Kruger and joined her husband's resistance movement.

In an event known as the November Riots, KrugerSec, on Gabriel's orders, escalated the protests by shooting first, killing dozens of people (we hear various estimates in audio logs - dozens is the minimum). In the chaos, he personally located Faith's parents and killed them both for betraying and fighting him before chasing down Faith and her sister Cat. Eventually ordering his forces to tear gas them, Faith had to leave her sister behind, and Kruger kidnapped Cat and raised her to be his Dragon, forcing her to forget her past and live a new life as Isabel Kruger.

And then the game begins.

During the events of the game, Kruger continues working on Reflection, intending to take away the free will of everyone in the city for his own purposes. During a regular running mission, Faith stumbles on a data drive regarding Reflection. Kruger spots her and identifies her as a Runner, causing him to crack down severely on the Runner organization and place guards all over the city. Eventually, this escalates severely, and he has Isabel invade the Runner's HQ and capture their leader Noah, claiming to the city that he's dead so as to demoralize the Runners. Along the way, he also scapegoats the scientist that led the Reflection project, throwing her into his underground prison/death camp.

He keeps Noah alive and tortures him for Faith's location, threatening to, among other things, reduce him to an emotionless husk through the power of Reflection. When Noah doesn't comply, Kruger simply has him killed with Reflection (revealing that it's a kill switch) and leaves to initiate his plan to upload it to everyone's Grids, forcing it into the citizens with no one knowing. However, Faith manages to arrive and stop it from broadcasting. Enraged by her constant interfering, Kruger pulls out every Break Them by Talking trick he can think of, including blaming her for leaving Cat behind and him kidnapping her, blaming her for her parents deaths, and blaming her for Noah's death, closing by saying that everyone around her dies and it's all her fault. He even manipulates her by saying that disabling Reflection will kill Cat, as she has a lung condition - that he caused with the tear gas - and Reflection is the only thing keeping her alive. Ultimately, though, Reflection is stopped, and Kruger ultimately dies in a helicopter crash - or at least, Isabel claims that he died and takes over, but they Never Found the Body...

Does he meet the heinous standard?

I'll get the easy thing over with first - Kruger is the heinous standard. Everything that happens in the game can be tied back to him and his desire to rule the city with an iron fist. Even if we take out the things he orders and just focus on what he personally does, he still easily makes it after personally killing Faith's parents, kidnapping and grooming her sister, killing Noah, scapegoating a scientist to an underground prison camp, and trying to enslave the entire city with a kill switch. Easy yes.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

This is the one part of the game that infuriates me. The game tries to make him sympathetic through his two children, but quite honestly, it falls short and even contradicts itself in the process. I'll start with the easier one: his daughter Isabel.

I'll be honest, after I first posted about the game on the thread I checked the game's pages, and I saw on a Heartwarming entry saying that in-game recordings have him acting as a Doting Parent towards her. I thought "fuck, did I jump the gun?" so I looked up the recordings (starting at 17:27 at this video) to see for myself. Honestly? Whoever wrote that entry was drunk, because I'm even more convinced than I already was. Those audio logs reek of emotional manipulation, Stockholm Syndrome, and abuse in spades, like having a pre-teen girl take sharpshooting classes to serve as his bodyguard and forcing her to forget her own name and sister just to make her more malleable. It's blatantly obvious that what Kruger's doing here is grooming, plain and simple.

What little of their interactions we see in-game does not show any evidence of love on his part, so I'm inclined to believe that he was grooming her to serve as his bodyguard and potential successor - and with that in mind, the one Pet the Dog moment he shows her in the recording (taking her to the top of the Shard) is rendered null. Plus, the one time he claims she's not just his pawn is in the same sentence that he blames Faith for the deaths of her parents - the parents that he murdered while she was seven years old - and also blames her for him kidnapping her sister, so I'm not inclined to take him at his word. Combine all of that with the fact that the relationship is based on the grounds of kidnapping her after hitting her with tear gas (tear gas that's implied to have caused her lung issue that he uses to guilt trip Faith), I call her a straight nonissue.

Then there's the fact that his son, "a regular police officer, was killed in the initial outbreak of the November Riots. Gabriel learned of the death only moments after it happened", and that's what made him go nuts against the protestors. That's from an in game document you can collect. It's an attempt at a Freudian Excuse, for sure. To put it shortly, I have multiple issues with this.

  1. This document is the only time he's ever mentioned in the entire game. Literally, this unnamed son never actually comes up once in-game, to the point that if you're like me and don't read the collectible documents as you go (assuming you even find it), you'll never even know he had a kid. Even when Kruger has a whole ass Motive Rant at the end of the game, he still never mentions a son. We have no indication of what their relationship was like, what the son was like, how the son died (or if he was killed in self-defense), how his death really affected Kruger (aside from just making him hate protestors), nothing - that one sentence I quoted is literally all the information that exists.

  2. That document contradicts every other document, recording, and in-game piece of evidence to try to make him sympathetic. It implies that the protestors started the riots and deflects the blame from him - but literally every other source confirms that KrugerSec shot first, meaning that him blaming the rioters for his death is projection at best and myopic at worst. Plus, that entire document, the closest thing he has to a bio, heavily skews things in his favor to the point of Character Shilling, and almost nothing it claims about his "good intentions" are backed up in-game.

  3. Even disregarding all of that, flashbacks to the initial riot and information given in-game show that Kruger had already come up with and started making Reflection before the riots started, meaning that he was going to essentially enslave the entire city even before this unnamed son was killed. As far as I can see, this son's death didn't change Kruger's plan in any way, shape or form.

So yeah, these are my issues with it. The game tries to give him a Freudian Excuse, but it falls short in pretty much every way. I'm honestly kind of annoyed at how people latched on to this and paint him as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, even on his character sheet, cause there's a way to make a legitimate Freudian Excuse but this is not it. It's not only a single sentence in a missable document, but it straight up contradicts what the game presents and he'd already gone over the deep end by starting the riot. I'm inclined to also view the unnamed son as a nonissue.

Final verdict?

This is the single worst attempt at a Freudian Excuse I have ever seen in my life - I give him a yes. What about you?

[down][down] The game's story isn't very long, and I really wanted to be clear about why I think he counts because the last thing I need is for him to get contested on something I forgot to mention - plus there are just so many different things wrong with it all at once. Figured more detail was better than less.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 10th 2021 at 11:45:33 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#255607: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:41:15 PM

Well, never have I thought I see a poor attempt at making a villain sympathetic first hand, [tup] to Gabriel.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#255608: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:43:02 PM

Jesus the mitigating factors section is longer than the history.

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#255609: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:45:43 PM

Yes to Gabby Krueger.

Apologies for another Wall of Text post, but this was initially a two-in-one EP and... well, after seeing an online review for this film (hey, I like trashy stuff as well, don't judge me) I thought I'd give it a look. And oh hell yes, TWO potential keepers.

Well, one is pretty straightforward and one is questionable, but I’ll let you guys be the judge.

The Film in Question

Forgotten Warrior is a 1986 Vietnam-themed military action film, released back during the wake of the second Rambo movie's success; being one of many Rambo-'sploitation flicks made with No Budget, the film's plot is pretty barebones, but there's still enough of a coherent story.

Anyways, on to the story...

The Backstory and Candidate(s)

The film opens with a night raid in 'Nam, 1974, where a team of GIs, including The Hero Steve Parrish, his commanding officer Thompson, and a few fellow GI escapes a Vietcong prison camp, rescuing few POWs… on their way out, Thompson, dragging along a wounded POW, suddenly executes said POW for begging him to slow down, and being witnessed by his fellow soldiers, immediately turns on his own team, ambushing his fellow GIs and killing most of them in a shootout. Steve barely managed to survive after being shot, ends up falling into a river where he lost consciousness.

Steve, the typical war hero he is, survives after being picked up by a Chinese family that lives in a village downstream (they speak Mandarin despite the setting being Vietnam, maybe they're immigrants). Mai La, the fishing lady who rescued Steve and nursed him to health, inevitably fell in love with him, and Steve ultimately decides not to return to America, marrying Mai La and settling in the village.

A Time Skip 6 months later reveals Thompson, the traitor, made his way back to the US, where he claims to be the Sole Survivor of a botched mission. Promoted to the rank of Major, Thompson is briefed by his higher-ups that there are still POW camps holding US personnel as prisoners, where he volunteers to be sent back to ‘Nam, claiming he have “unfinished business” with the country. Arriving at ‘Nam, Major Thompson is greeted by a Vietcong platoon, and wouldn’t you know it, he’s a double-agent secretly serving a brutal North Vietnamese dictator, Colonel Minh. Major Thompson, it seems, is the military advisor working in tandem with the dictator, and is using his rank in the military to prevent US intervention to support Colonel Minh’s dictatorship and perform regular executions and ethnic cleansing.

Major Thompson learns from Minh of reports regarding a “White Man” which ambushed one of Minh’s platoon days earlier, killing a few of Minh’s men in the process while they’re hunting down the village La Résistance; Thompson later finds out that man is none other than his former partner, Steve, that he presumed had died during his betrayal months ago, and for Steve to be hunted down. A scene later had Minh and his soldiers rounding up a family of farmers, interrogating them about the presence of Steve in a neighboring village, and when a farmer tries fighting back, Minh and Thompson fire their guns into the crowd. Another farmer, fearing for his life, directs Thompson and Minh to a neighboring village where Steve was last spotted; the remaining famers are then taken away to an Uncertain Doom while Thompson only gleefully looked on.

In the village, Steve had been Training the Peaceful Villagers while trying to keep a low profile with his wife, but since The Call Knows Where You Live… well, you know. Yeah, an army of soldiers led by Thompson and Minh attacks late night, in the ensuing chaos Steve is separated from his new family while fighting enemies. Meanwhile, Thompson guns down fleeing civilians at the edge of the village, and fights a stick-wielding resistance fighter trained by Steve earlier; when said resistance fighter is winning, Thompson cheats by whipping out a concealed pistol and shooting him. As luck would have it, Thompson caught Steve’s wife, Mai La, and of course decides to rape her before killing her, disgusting his lackey, Sergeant Joe (another American who defected to support Minh’s dictatorship, but he’s not nearly as disgustingly evil as Thompson). Steve catches Thompson after Thompson killed his wife, and furiously attacks his ex-colleague, but cannot stop Thompson from escaping.

The next morning, a vengeful Steve goes out Vietcong hunting to avenge his village. Utilizing a series of traps, Steve kills several enemies, and while infiltrating the Vietcong camp, comes across Li, a woman held by the Vietcong, who is later revealed to be Minh’s daughter but opposes her father’s dictatorship. Steve managed to trick Thompson, Minh and several enemies into a booby-trapped jungle; Thompson then instructs Minh to drag innocent captives caught during the village massacre, purposely forcing a woman holding a baby in front of him as a meatshield. Seeing the woman about to trigger a tripwired trap, Steve desperately gives himself up, and gets captured alive.

Steve ends up being strung to a rack in the Vietcong base, under Thompson and Minh’s orders. The two villains are in a meeting, with Minh giving documents to Thompson for him to return to the Pentagon and report that there are no remaining POWs in ‘Nam, as Thompson contemplates on the torture he’ll inflict on Steve, but Li, sneaking out into the camp, secretly released Steve. Colonel Minh, in an attempt to shoot at Steve, unintentionally shot his daughter. Steve then kills Minh with a flung knife, before fighting his way out.

In the following morning, Thompson and the rest of the Vietcong goes after Steve. In an extensive climax, Steve managed to kill every enemy, and knock Thompson down a cliff where the villain hits his head on a rock, dead.

Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Thompson… nyet, he’s a Blood Knight and traitor, who betrays his whole platoon for a position of power. There’s no reason for his actions other than thirst for power.

How About the Heinousness Standard?

The Vietcong soldiers who massacred a village are mooks, working under Thompson and Minh, so nothing for them.

Thompson’s lackey, Joe, the other American who served the Vietcong, is shown to follow Even Evil Has Standards, disgusted at Thompson raping Steve’s wife after killing several villagers. Anyway he’s not really a big player.

Colonel Minh… he’s a tough one. Originally, I intended to EP both Thompson and Minh, thinking I can do a two-candidate-in-one-post (like what I did yesteryear). But while Minh is a dictator, he does let out a Big "NO!" when he accidentally shot his own daughter, right before he’s killed by Steve. I assume he’s not going to keep because he did somewhat give a shit about his daughter.

Major Thompson? From betraying his own platoon to supporting a dictator, knowing full well his actions can lead to tons of innocent deaths, and later had an entire village slaughtered to silence his former ally Steve for knowing too much.

Should We Count Major Thompson Then?

Easy keep.

But.. what about Colonel Minh?

Eh, the Colonel supports ethnic cleansing and colludes with a corrupted American military leader so that he can continue his dominance as a dictator, but he’s shown being concerned for his daughter two seconds before his death (he shouts "No!" after accidentally killing her - before getting killed himself). Not really sure on this one.

Edited by RobertTYL on Apr 11th 2021 at 12:07:35 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#255610: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:53:07 PM

[tdown] to the Colonel because of the daughter thing.

Bow to the Prototype
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#255611: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:54:02 PM

Yeah the whole daughter thing kinda killed it even if it was only for 2 seconds. [tdown] Vinh but yes to Thompson

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 10th 2021 at 11:55:37 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#255612: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:54:39 PM

[tup] to Krueger (another one for the Unintentionally Unsympathetic pile).

Nay to the Colonel, but sure to The Major.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 10th 2021 at 8:56:01 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#255613: Apr 10th 2021 at 9:10:40 PM

[tup]Dr. Arthur Walts and Cindy Fall

IPP Wick Check created.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255616: Apr 10th 2021 at 10:15:41 PM

Yes to Thompson. Also gonna throw a yes to Gabriel. I have personal experience with Unintentionally Sympathetic villains myself—Carl Tanner from the early 90s The Flash series comes to mind as my highlight. Maybe Mothergod, but the comic itself took some time to deconstruct Mothergod's mindset.

Edited by Scraggle on Apr 10th 2021 at 11:17:36 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#255617: Apr 10th 2021 at 11:13:44 PM

Keep Cinder and Watts.
[tup] to Xeraan, Kruger and Thompson. [tdown] Minh.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#255618: Apr 10th 2021 at 11:33:59 PM

Yes to Kruger and Thompson.

I am leaving for my vacation. See you guys in a few weeks.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#255620: Apr 11th 2021 at 12:18:51 AM

Tentative yes to Kruger. That kinda reminds me of Chairman Drek from Ratchet and Clank who allegedly "loves his mother" according to one sentence in the manual even though the mother is never mentionned in any way shape or form in the entire script of the game proper.

Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#255621: Apr 11th 2021 at 1:48:42 AM

I was looking at the YMMV page on Doom and noticed that there are currently 8 approved CM's throughout the franchise (4 from the mainline games, 2 from the RPG spin-offs, and one each from Doom: Annihilation and the Doom³ novels). Does this warrant its own CM subpage?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#255622: Apr 11th 2021 at 2:55:28 AM

'Yes' to Krueger—and btw, the length of the proposal was just fine, STAR, you did great covering everything. Awesome job getting up one so overlooked for so long!

'Yes' to Xeraan and Thompson, as well, but nay to Minh.

Now, since I'm on a bit of a comic book animation kick, wanna discuss an animated series I watched a lot growing up and that's already got some Keepers, but I think has at the least one more...

What's the work?

Spider-Man: The Animated Series is a damn good 90s superhero cartoon detailing stories and adventures of everyone's favorite webhead in what many consider to be the defining adaptation of the character.

The show already has CMs in Herbert Landon and everyone's favorite psychopath Carnage, and while one of the parties responsible for Carnage—Dread Lord Dormammu—has come up before and been downvoted, let's talk the other contributor to Carnage's existence and Dormammu's personal right hand man!

Who is Baron Mordo? What has he done?

Baron Mordo—voiced by the master of villainous voices himself Tony Jay—was once a student of the mystical Ancient One, but, growing jealous of the power his master possessed, Mordo attempted to murder the honorable Ancient One with a curse. Ousted for this villainy and the Ancient One surviving, Mordo fled his tutelage and swore himself to the dark arts of magic, particularly...that of the dimension-devouring Dormammu, committing himself to unleashing Dormammu onto his entire universe so as to bask in the power and glory of Dormammu consuming all life in his dimension.

In his introductory episode, Mordo uses an emotionally-charged hypnosis to manipulate dozens of people into joining his cult, tricking them into believing their lost loved ones are once more with them as Mordo uses them as superpowered puppets to carry out his will—outright bragging that he's throwing them in the line of fire and will sacrifice any amount of them in service to his goals.

After a failed attempt to use the slaves to unleash Dormammu, after which his victims are saved and restored though with obvious roughness following the break from Mordo's spell, Mordo returns to further carry out Dormammu's bidding in the series, primarily by empowering Eddie Brock and Cletus Kasady with symbiotes to bring forth Venom and Carnage to be new agents of Dormammu.

Overseeing as Venom and Carnage menace a science expo and its audience to steal a device required for summoning his master, Mordo then empowers Carnage with the ability to drain the life force of victims, sending him out to wreak havoc and drain dozens of people of their lives so Mordo can use them in a ritual to finally break down Dormammu's barrier and unleash him.

In the final battle, Mordo brings forth Dormammu and happily tries to murder Spider-Man, Iron Man and a Heel–Face Turn-ed Venom before his master moves to bring destruction to all, but our heroes manage to banish Dormammu back to his dimension, send Carnage along with him, and restore the life forces of victims to them, though at the cost of Venom.

And Mordo? Is last seen snarling that he's lost...for now...before fleeing the scene, planning to continue scheming for the release of Dormammu and the end of the dimension as we know it.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Nah, Mordo is a just a power hungry dick, nothing more to him. His exact reasoning for wanting to unleash Dormammu is never really delved into except for power and in service of darkness, but he's no GDV and he's got enough personality otherwise. Dormammu is a shitty boss to him as well, but Mordo is by no means doing anything against his own will.

Heinousness?

Dormammu is the one calling the shots, sure, but Mordo is his Dragon and the one who carries out his dark whims—without Mordo, Dormammu is just a head in a portal with limited reach to the outside world. Mordo is The Heavy in hypnotizing dozens of people into trying to kill Dr. Strange while endangering them all, unleashing Carnage onto the world, and all for the express goal of releasing Dormammu to consume the souls of all life in his entire dimension.

Carnage is more visceral, but Mordo is the reason Carnage comes about, and has extra crimes of his own to stand just fine alongside him and his own boss Dormammu.

Final Verdict?

Simple, no-nonsense Keeper, and one from a show I'm quite pleased to have finally gotten a candidate from.

Edited by Ravok on Apr 11th 2021 at 2:56:35 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#255624: Apr 11th 2021 at 3:09:39 AM

Yes to Thompson and Mordo. No to Minh People complain about the lenght of a post while I'm struggling to trim one about a candidate who appears in literally 52 episodes.[lol] I hope people won't mind if it's slightly longer than usual.

Edited by Silverblade2 on Apr 11th 2021 at 12:11:03 PM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#255625: Apr 11th 2021 at 3:17:19 AM

@ACW: I wish he would. Borbarad basically did one horrible thing after another. He’s responsible for the deaths of thousands of people and used demons as weapons without a second though, but his ultimate goal wasn’t a bad one. Borbarad believed that the races of the previous ages we’re hold back the laws of the cosmos and couldn’t reach their full potential. So, he tried to tear down said laws, in the genuine believe that the end result would actually strengthen the forces of creation against the forces of chaos (aka the demons).

[tup] for Gabriel Kruger. Great EP that did a very good job explaining why his mitigating factors aren’t mitigating at all.

[tup] for Thompson. Based on what you wrote, Minh is one of these candidate who get disqualified because of a small redeeming quality five seconds before their death.

[tup] for Karl… err evil grin I mean Baron Mordo.


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