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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

RaynForce58 Since: Apr, 2016
#255101: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:31:18 PM

That's right. Makes sense they'd make the character a scorpion given how Marmoo created all insects and arachnids.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#255102: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:31:44 PM

Ye to Marmoo.

Edit: Already been answered.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 6th 2021 at 11:32:28 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#255105: Apr 6th 2021 at 9:30:57 PM

[tup] Marmoo good find (and this is the third time a god turned to destructive evil out of jealousy for not creating the world)

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#255109: Apr 6th 2021 at 10:30:29 PM

One question before I decide to add a Complete Monster suggestion. Is a person who is willing to enslave children and turn them into Child Soldiers is considered to be equally vile as a person who lost a friend via an accidental murder who went insane and bombed a capitol in an attempt to dethrone its god?

Also, [tup] to Marmoo

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Apr 6th 2021 at 10:31:06 AM

Eh, good enough.
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#255110: Apr 6th 2021 at 10:40:21 PM

[tup] Marmoo, and now I want to read about aboriginal myth. I feel so bad for the bugs sadjust bugs me

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#255112: Apr 6th 2021 at 11:18:51 PM

Yes to Marmoo

I'd say enslaving children is probably enough to stand out compared to a Mad Bomber

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#255114: Apr 6th 2021 at 11:47:06 PM

[tup] to Marmoo, Krieger, Slenderman, Lyman and Alliser.

Edited by DrScavenge27 on Apr 7th 2021 at 8:22:58 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#255115: Apr 6th 2021 at 11:51:29 PM

Lightysnake: Ah, good. I was trying to build up the confidence to make an entry for this guy, but it was hard to do because of the Morality Kitchen Sink the work has.

What's The Game?

The game I am talking about is Fire Emblem: Code of the Black Knights, a ROM Hack of Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. It takes the skill system of FE8 and refines it further, and has a completely original plot, though references to the Fire Emblem franchise are made. The story begins with a narration of the continent of Lumae, its countries and its leaders. After that, it switches to the perspective of the Holy Knights of Kalm, in which they repel invading mercenaries. However, it's soon discovered that those mercenaries were hired by the Southern Kingdom of Zoyla, and the main protagonists, Schwarze and Noir, investigate why would Zoyla do such an act, and this would spark a series of events that drastically change Lumae forever...

Who Is He And What Has He Done?

The person I'm talking about today is Baron Alliser, one of the main members of the council of the Sovereign of Al-Hadar. He's introduced as the person the council requests to Schwarze to rescue him from bandits and as trying to mend relations with Zoyla. However, after rescuing him, it turns out he has a couple of nasty secrets that get revealed quickly: Namely, he was a child slaver who was heavily involved in turning them into child soldiers, and that who diplomacy with Zoyla was in fact a lie, he's actually trying to prepare an army against them due to his sheer racism against Zoylans. However, Vert throws a wrench into his plans, causing him to use them instead to prepare a defense force against him, but Drew managed to turn on him, resulting in him being held hostage by bandits. Needless to say, his atrocities alone, depending on which action Schwarze takes, kills him or reluctantly escorts him back to the Council of Al-Hadar. In the case of the former, while they call out Schwarze for these (and if he committed too many war crimes, imprison him and the rest of the Black Knights), they agreed that Alliser needed to be dealt with. In the case where Schwarze and Noir escort him back to the council, Noir reveals that she snuck a Memory Crystal that recorded Alliser's confession that he was responsible for child slavery and attempting to use them for child soldiers, which not only results in the council declaring his imprisonment, but also revealed that they were investigating his actions for a long time, and his confession was the breaking point, and they sentence him to a Fate Worse than Death.

Freudian Excuse?

He does indeed have one. According to him, his mother was one of the dead people during an incident in Al-Hadar, which drove him into performing his heinous actions. However, Mithra punches him for that, stating that he did not feel true suffering, and he continuously uses it as a weapon he inflicts on others and believes that it will make everyone's lives better, thus invalidating his excuse.

Heinous Standard?

By all accounts, there's a bit of white and mostly gray. Vert at least had a justifiable reason for his actions, Elias only decides to bomb the Kalmite capital as a last resort and even then, he's focused on improving his country, Kayleth's wife Annabel was killed during the war and sought a way to revive her, but realized the Aum Staff he was searching to revive his wife was simply an ordinary staff, and this led to him being the leader of Ouroboros, an cult that sought to end the Vicious Cycle of war, Lazarus' unsavory tactics was started by an accident that wiped out most of his allies, and Layton/Umbra/Talion was driven to insanity by the accidental death of his friend Kalm (yes, he founded a country named after himself), which led to him developing lifeforms and weapons to dethrone Naga. Noticed a pattern among them? They all had a sympathetic reason for their actions. Alliser stands out among them because he lacks a justifiable excuse for his actions, and driven by hatred against Zoylans, and will do anything, even enslave children, to carry out his so-called "defense" against the Zoylans, which has done more harm to Al-Hadar. In short, he stands out because he is willing to do no other villain would do, as he crosses the Moral Event Horizon to achieve his petty venegence.

Final Verdict?

Considering that Code of the Black Knights runs on White-and-Grey Morality at best and Morality Kitchen Sink at worst, yes.

Eh, good enough.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#255116: Apr 6th 2021 at 11:59:26 PM

Seems an open and shut up for a uniquely standout crime, yep.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
RaynForce58 Since: Apr, 2016
#255119: Apr 7th 2021 at 1:37:42 AM

Since I have enough upvotes, I'll do Marmoo's writeup. How's this?

Edited by RaynForce58 on Apr 7th 2021 at 1:38:41 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#255120: Apr 7th 2021 at 1:39:17 AM

That works. Please add to the Drafts.

After Bila?

RaynForce58 Since: Apr, 2016
#255121: Apr 7th 2021 at 1:53:49 AM

He is a more prominent god than her, so I'll place him above her.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#255122: Apr 7th 2021 at 2:30:13 AM

[tup] Marmoo, Alliser

Belated condolences, future.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#255124: Apr 7th 2021 at 3:04:56 AM

Yes to Marmoo (no way in hell I'd vote no to the guy responsible for creating the huntsman spider, lol) and Alliser.

Funnily enough, I was about to effortpost a Fire Emblem villain of my own since I remember him not being listed when I checked the franchise page... which was a few years ago. Since then, the guy I was gunning for got approved: Fomortiis. Props to the guy who got him written up back then!

krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#255125: Apr 7th 2021 at 3:56:24 AM

Alright, here's my initial draft for Kor Phaeron. I actually think his full name is meant to be said as a rule, not just his first: Colchisian naming conventions.

  • Kor Phaeron, the Black Cardinal of the Word Bearers Legion, was Erebus's co-conspirator in the Horus Heresy. Formerly a priest on the feudal world of Colchis, Kor Phaeron had been banished from the Covenant of Colchis for his radical, violent religious views. Kidnapping the young Primarch Lorgar and exterminating the desert nomads who had been raising him, Kor Phaeron horrifically abused him as he groomed him into his agent of revenge against the Covenant, leading to a devastating civil war. Years later, when Kor Phaeron was serving under Lorgar as Word Bearers First Captain, he began conspiring with Erebus to overthrow the Imperium and sell the galaxy out to Chaos for their own benefit. Corrupting Lorgar to Chaos and seeding cults on the worlds they attacked, Kor Phaeron and Erebus's machinations led to the Horus Heresy, which shattered the Imperium and killed trillions of people. During the attack on Calth, Kor Phaeron stabbed Roboute Guilliman with the Athame blade, hoping to corrupt the Primarch to the Dark Gods. When the Horus Heresy failed and the Word Bearers fled to the Daemon World Sicarus, Kor Phaeron found a prophecy that told of Chaos's ultimate victory at the cost of his life: in response, he slew the prophet Jepeth and destroyed his prophecies, undermining the Word Bearers and the Chaos Gods he claimed to serve to save his own skin.


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