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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#254501: Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:26:25 PM

[tup] Greig. Stacy Keach with a rocket launcher sounds ridiculously awesome

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#254502: Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:35:10 PM

Still waiting for some confirmation on these images.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#254503: Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:41:50 PM

I like all the images but the first - if you're able to combine two and three further, that'd be even better.

[down][down] In that case, I'll throw my support in for 2 and 4 - 3 doesn't really stand out as much on its own, and compared to piles of corpses, 1 just showing one target isn't as heinous as the others.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 2nd 2021 at 5:08:50 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#254504: Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:44:45 PM

[up][up]Certainly quite the images.

I think I got the right ones for Mads through the search engine back to the Prentiss discussion.

Funny how the name is Carl Grieg when Carl Creel was the name of an Agents of SHIELD character. Sounds similar, but yeah, not the same.

Back to the images, they’re fitting and I can leave it to everyone else to pick between them I think.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:52:40 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#254505: Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:07:19 PM

[up][up] I don't think it would make much sense. The guy standing in the third is the one dying in the second. It would be too jarring of a transition without seeing how we got there.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#254506: Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:09:46 PM

[tup] for Al-Fulani, Brain and Greig.

Edited by TellAll111 on Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:10:02 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#254507: Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:13:18 PM

I just discovered a Russian TV adaptation of Lord of the Rings, if anyone wants to check that out.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#254508: Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:38:11 PM

I can give it a look.

Also, yes to Greig.

Edited by Beast on Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:38:37 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#254509: Apr 2nd 2021 at 3:01:14 PM

[tup] to Grieg and also hello it's been a while, lol.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#254511: Apr 2nd 2021 at 3:31:51 PM

In terms of formal votes following the Ruthven quote proposal, it’s 3 (me, Sky, and ACW) to 2 (papyru and Bull) in its favor, but I’d wait just a bit longer to be sure. Any other votes between the two proposed quotes?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#254512: Apr 2nd 2021 at 3:32:58 PM

Eh, sure, the quote sounds fine.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254513: Apr 2nd 2021 at 3:50:30 PM

Whoa, welcome back, Largo! How's it been?

My second tonight...

What's the work?

Wolf's Rain is an anime by Cowboy Bebop's scriptwriter Keiko Nobumoto, running in 2003 for 26 episodes with a 4 part OVA coda...in a world devastated by war and famine, the end is approaching. Wolves are an endangered species....and magic, who project a human form. Kiba is a lone wolf seeking the mythical gates to "Paradise" to fulfill an ancient prophecy. He meets other wolves: Tsume, Hige and Toboe, and a mysterious girl born from flowers named Cheza...a wolf hunter named Quent pursues the wolves and feuding Nobles attempt to use the wolves for their ends....and our villain? The final boss before the OVA: Lady Jaguara

Who is Jaguara?

One of the three most powerful remaining Nobles between her, Lord Orkham and Lord Darcia III. Jaguara was born a twin to her younger sister, Lady Hamona. If Hamona was light, Jaguara was shadow....this led to her meeting Darcia, whose grandfather, Darcia I apparently opened the gates to paradise. Jaguara and Hamona were both taken by Darcia, but his heart only belonged to Hamona...but happiness was not to last. Hamona fell victim to "Paradise Sickness," her soul consumed by Paradise and lost to the next world. She fell into a deep catatonia, whereupon Darcia intended to open the gates to find his love and restore her...

But Jaguara dedicated herself to conflict and control. Launching savage campaigns, she slaughtered everything in her path, welcoming in refugees to expand her kingdom...and what was more, she used brainwashed wolves (including Hige himself) as "lapdogs" to hunt down other wolves. Now, in this verse, wolves are sapient...Jaguara has them captured, tortured, extracts their blood and butchers them, dining on their meat and drinking their blood.

To bring Darcia to her, Jaguara takes advantage of the conflicts intersplicing everything. Jaguara slaughters the forces of Lord Orkham and has him murdered along with his entire court, kidnapping Cheza to draw out Darcia...and before this? Jaguara murders her own sleeping sister, to Darcia's grief. Jaguara takes over as the villain, where it's revealed that she is also well known for annihilating entire towns to get a few wolves hiding there, something that happened to the family of Quent the wolf hunter (who blamed wolves for it).

with rebels attempting tof ace Jaguara, the wolves manage to enter her keep. Kiba is taken, his blood extracted to have Cheza open the gates to Paradise, while Darcia arrives....Darcia and Jaguara face off after Darcia brings down all her court, ending in a duel between them as Jaguara, after being furious Darcia won't love her, stabs him with a poison dagger...then psychologically tortures him by using Hamona's voice, declaring he'll die if he won't be hers...the wolves intervene, Jaguara almost killing Jige before Kiba almost bites her throat out...wounded, she stumbles before Darcia who coldly impales her with his sword, leaving her to collapse lifeless.

Mitigating issues?

Heinousness...Jaguara is brutal, ambitious, genocidal, has killed wolves en masse, kills tons of people in her quest for power, has Orkham's court exterminated, murders her sister and annihilates entire towns...the only competitor is Darcia who goes fucking loco in the final episodes and slaughters all the cast so he alone can enter Paradise. Jaguara still has him beat by sheer bodycount, but Darcia...wow.

While Jaguara professes to love Darcia, it's hard to see this as redeeming. She murders her own sister so Darcia will choose her instead (though Darcia says that Hamona has been long gone)...but when Darcia spurns her, Jaguara tries to murder him, poisons him, mocks him by using Hamona's voice and gleefully states as he's dying that he'll be hers forever in death instead. Pretty far from redeeming and genuine love, IMO.

Conclusion?

Giving Jaguara a yes.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#254515: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:00:30 PM

[tup]jagura

Second for Mary Elizabeth McGlynn after Sakaki

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#254516: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:01:14 PM

[tup] Jaguara.

Also did a quick check on the Russian Lord of the Rings thing; from what I can find it only follows Fellowship of the Ring.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#254517: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:03:15 PM

[tup] to Grieg and Lady Jaguara

Good to hear from you Largo!

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#254518: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:10:44 PM

[tup] Al-Fulani, Brain, Greig and Jaguara

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#254519: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:23:45 PM

Logging on to pitch in my support for the Ruthven quote

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#254521: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:38:11 PM

Kamen rider double is getting an anime sequel. What do you know ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#254522: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:43:10 PM

[tup] Lady Jagura. Yet another one I had my eye on.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254523: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:49:14 PM

I think I'm gonna call dibs on that Kamen Rider W sequel given that was the last series I watched (going through Gaim now).

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#254525: Apr 2nd 2021 at 5:40:24 PM

[tup] to Greig, Jagara and the Ruthven quote

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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