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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#254476: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:07:43 PM

This is the one that was proposed earlier

"[C]onscience, what have I to do with thee? Awe thou thy dull legitimate slaves, but I was born a libertine, and so I keep me!"
Edmund the Bastard, The History of King Lear

I personally prefer this one.

Edited by papyru30 on Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:11:30 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#254477: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:08:17 PM

That one seems more The Hedonist, plus it has Shakespeare's Purple Prose.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#254479: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:21:44 PM

I prefer the Ruthven Quote, personally.

Yes to Brain.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254480: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:24:36 PM

So, I've got a fun little Die Hard ripoff:

What's the work?

Icebreaker is a 2000 film that is...not very good. But has a combo that has likely never been repeated under the sun: it stars Sean Astin as the action hero, has Stacy Keach as his would-be father in law and the villain, Carl Greig, is an evil terrorist out to carve his legacy upon the world....and Greig is played by none other than Bruce Campbell.

Who is Greig?

a man of...questionable origin and no hair, Greig is a terrorist with alegacy of evil and murder behind him, who wants to...I don't actually know, because the one time he explains it, it doesn't make any sense at all. Look, I saw this film with Rifftrax, it made it bearable. The problem is? Greig is dying of an unspecified illness and wants to leave a mark on his last ever birthday....so he had a plane hijacked with weapons-grade nuclear weapons. His intention is to nuke a city, being the most successful terrorist ever with a video explaining his reasons...issue is, someone got an attack of conscience and the plane crashed at the Killington Ski Resort where hero Matt Foster is with his beloved, trying to explain to her dad about their marriage....when Greig arrives and takes over.

Oh, and did I mention the man Greig blames for losing the plane? Greig interrogates him by having him hang on to the edge of a helicopter HIGH into the air, before stomping on his hands to send him plummeting to his death as he doesn't forgive him...upon taking over, well...our hero Matt is free and Greig takes over the ski resort, executing a hostage. His longtime FBI nemesis Bill Langley arrives to warn the others at the resort. (Ripptrax makes the lovely joke that also arriving is his CIA counterpart Bob Quantico)...so, Greig is intending on recovering the nuke and bombing a city before his life expires, kills a bunch of law enforcement, threatens to murder the hostages, holds a standoff and demands that if the FBI arrive? The hostages will be slaughtered, before things break up and Matt steadily eliminates the villains. The FBI are blown up in a helicopter because Die Hard ripoff and this film is committed to treading those waters.

In the end, Greig manages to lose most of his inner circle, but decides to nuke the ski resort, and himself with it as a "happy birthday, Greig!" ...only to be blown up by Stacy Keach with a rocket launcher.

Mitigating issues?

Easily over the HS with lots of deaths, trying to murder all the hostages, nuking the place, trying to nuke a city as plan A, no issues by there. The other matter is mitigating issues...Greig talks a good game at charm and charisma, but...his motives are genuinely inscrutable. He leaves a videotape to "explain why I did this" but really, it's just about leaving his mark...he makes this speech that makes no sense about anything, and...well, no care for his men. He clearly intends to leave a few to be nuked, and when a few others decide they're leaving, he just screams at them to get lost, too busy trying to get the nuke going.

Conclusion?

A yes to Greig.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#254481: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:26:14 PM

Yes to Greig. Second for Bruce Campbell I believe.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#254484: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:30:51 PM

Yes to Greig. Film has its own page.

Who was Campbell's second?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#254485: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:31:32 PM

Based on the EP, [tup] to Greig.

Oh I get it! Icebreaker! Yeah that’s a dumb name. Funny enough, I saw the title and got confused thinking it was Jawbreaker. Haha.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254486: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:33:05 PM

Campbell was a CM in Escape from LA, the surgeon General of Beverly Hills

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#254487: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:34:24 PM

Yeah, I know that one (that's the one listed on the CM's by actor page), but who's the third besides that and this?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254488: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:38:26 PM

Assault on Dome 4, Alex Windham. Die Hard in space.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#254489: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:38:57 PM

@ACW Yeah I only saw the Surgeon too.

[nja]ed by Lighty. Asked and answered.

Also, doesn’t Mads Mikkelsen have two other CM s too besides Prentiss and Le Chiffre? I remember someone mentioning that.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:39:27 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#254490: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:40:12 PM

Funny I had actually considered bringing up this guy. The thing that made me decide against it is that he let his remaining underline Josh leave when he was planning to blow up the place even though he didn't really have a reason to.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:58:05 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#254491: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:40:26 PM

[tup]Greig (can't go wrong with Bruce Campbell)

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254492: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:42:04 PM

[up][up] The way the scene plays out is the men are around him, Greig is barely standing as he's trying tog et the nuke. The one minion says "I'm going to leave now" and Greig just screams at him and the others to get lost if they won't help him.

There's no pet the dog here. He's dead on his feet and has no way to punish them for disobeying.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#254494: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:42:44 PM

[tup] The chin himself

It's Spooky Month!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#254496: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:47:10 PM

[up][up][up][up] I would agree it isn't really a Pet the Dog moment but it seemed way too ambiguous for me to discount it as a prevention.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#254497: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:52:03 PM

I'm not really sure there's much ambiguity. Greig is happy to leave other men behind to die and displays little emotion at the deaths of others. When his men desert him, he doesn't really have any other options left but to let them go.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#254498: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:56:46 PM

Yes to Greig, that's not enough for me to downvote on.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#254499: Apr 2nd 2021 at 12:56:46 PM

Yes to Greig, I'm with Lighty on this, sounds like he just doesn't care enough to stop his men from leaving rather than him wanting to spare them.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#254500: Apr 2nd 2021 at 1:17:47 PM

Sure to Greig.


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