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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#253101: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:35:33 AM

[tup] Slenderman

Finally, I get to be the page topper.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:35:48 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253102: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:36:04 AM

After reading through the last piece of the Terminator comics, that may have a candidate, i realized i missed one and decided to propose

What is the Work?

Terminator 2: Infinity and Terminator: Revolution are the sequel comics to Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines from Dynamite Entertainment. Following John Connor's rise as the commander of the human resistance and Skynet's attempt to mess with the timeline and assure its own survival, the whole series of both miniseries' consist of 10 issues total and bring up the original elements, that weren't featured in the movies, like John's wife here is Tara Connor, who he meets in the second half of Infinity.

My candidate is predictibly Skynet.

All pages with Skynet from the comic is linked in the EP, for anyone, who wants to verify anything.

Who is Skynet?

The sentient AI, who is responsible for the Apocolypse, that wiped out majority of humanity, leaving the world in ruins, with a lot of corpses on the streets, as Terminators hunt down humanity on Skynet's orders. As humanity started to dominate the war and were on the verge of destroying Skynet in the year of 2033, Skynet "laid low" for a while, gloating how it is not finished yet, as it creates its newest Terminator model, T-Infinity. Finding out that the timeline has been diverted and "corrupted", Skynet decided to "fix" it by sending its T-Infinity to the past to various timelines and kill anyone, it considered "wrong element", including its own Terminators (like the one from original movie and Teminator 3).

Sending its T-Infinity to 2015 (in the starting years of the war) to destroy rogue Terminators (the ones that were programmed to protect John Connor) and slaughter the resistance base, after John Conner got there (since he spent a lot of time in the bunker hiding and drinking, before deciding to head out and meeting "Uncle Bob", another Terminator, that was programmed to protect him). "Uncle Bob" and T-Infinity engage in a fight and he was able to fight it off and John Connor destroyed it. Discovering this, Skynet created another T-Infinity and sended it to kill Tara Connor.

This leads T-Infinity to arrive at the base, Tara Connor was in, and start massacring people there, until John Connor was able to send it and himself into the past. Not being able to find T-Infinity, Skynet created the giant dog Teminator, The Dire Wolf, and sended it to kill everything in its way and either salvage T-Infinity or destroy it, if it was captured by humans. Meanwhile in the past, T-Infinity and other Teminators were acting according to Skynet's other orders, and hunted John Connor and Sarah Connor, with T-Infinity killing the principal of school, John Connor was in, to ambush Sarah.

Skynet meanwhile gloats from the year of 2033 about how The Dire Wolfs never stops and being assured that its future is secured, preparing for "The Return of Armageddon" with a new army of Terminators that it builded, intending to wipe out humanity for good this time. In the final issues, growing panicking that the timeline has bee "disturbed again", while T-Infinity hunted down Sarah and John, Skynet was shocked when the resistance launched a missle at it in the year of 2015, destroying it much earlier than it should have been destroyed, which led to Skynet being erased from existance in the year of 2033 and humanity rebuilding the world (althrough there is a hint that in the alternative timeline, the war is still going).

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. This is the last Skynet from Terminator comics, that has onscreen presence and personality to count (since it has quite a few lines of dialogue, as we "read" its mind in some of the pages).

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Wiped out billions, regularly hunts down the survivors, tries to wipe out mankind and reduced the world to ruins. In addition, tries to manipulate the timeline in such a way, that it would lead to humanity's extinction and would always lead to its creation and the "Apocolypse", that wiped out 3 billion people across the world.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#253103: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:38:57 AM

Also, another thing A Song of Ice and Fire in Fan Works now has 8 examples with the new one including both it and Game of Thrones, so should it get its own folder?

Also [tup] Skynet

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:39:23 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#253104: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:10:33 PM

[tup] to Skynet #8 (assuming we count the Skynets from Rise/Salvation and Genisys as different ones)

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#253105: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:12:53 PM

Yes to Skynet.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#253106: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:18:14 PM

[tup]skynet

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253107: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:23:41 PM

Sure to Skynet.

[up][up][up][up] I wouldn't be terribly opposed to that.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keet96 Good Hunter from Anor Londo Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Good Hunter
#253110: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:45:34 PM

I'd like to discuss Si Coltrane, who, frankly, I'm surprised hasn't been discussed before, from the comic series Preacher.

What is the Work?

Preacher is an adult graphic novel following the titular Preacher, one Jesse Custer, who gains the power of the Word of God due to a half demon, half angel baby entering his body, which destroys his church and forces him on the run. He ends up teaming up with his ex-girlfriend Tulip and the vampire Cassidy and travelling to New York to find answers for his condition and lie low from the authorities, where they stay with Si Coltrane...

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Si is the Reaver Cleaver, a serial killer terrorising New York City. Introduced flaying a victim's face off and then nailing it back on upside down, he then mails another victim's scrotum to his widow. Leaving Cassidy alone in his apartment and knowing he can't leave due to the sunlight, Si calls the police and attempts to frame the vampire from his own crimes, even though Cassidy had previously saved his life and sanity after taking bad acid. It is discovered that he has a man's severed head in his fridge and a secret room, filled with bloody weapons, butcher's equipment and the previously mentioned flayed victim, who is still alive and begging Cassidy to kill him. He then attempts to kill Tulip after stabbing her through the hand and confessing he only does it because it's fun, and also hand Jesse into the police to protect his own reputation.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

He admits that he only kills and tortures people for the fun of it, having discovered the thrill of murder after running someone over in his car and leaving him to die by the side of the road, laughing 'fit to bust' as he did so. He also tells Tulip that nothing particularly bad happened to him, and even mocks the idea of a 'Freudian Excuse' or explanation for his actions. Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Whilst not a supernatural villain or a member of the [[Illuminati Grail]], Coltrane manages to cause a great deal of harm and disgust. He also seems to be the most sadistic, committing these vile acts simply for their own sake, rather than that of power or other reward.

Final Verdict?

I definitely think Coltrane does, due to his unmatched sadism and lack of a reason for his actions.

Edited by Keet96 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:45:52 PM

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#253111: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:59:23 PM

I was looking through Former Complete Monsters, and I couldn't find the film version of Barty Crouch Jr., who I remember being listed as a CM for a while before getting removed. I don't remember why he was removed (otherwise I would've added him myself), so if anyone who does remembers why can add him, that would be great.

Edited by toonyloon on Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:19:13 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#253112: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:14:09 PM

It’ll be a hard task; the search function, particularly in the forums, is quite janky. I assume the reason is how much of the heinous standard Barty occupies.

Edited by k410ren on Mar 22nd 2021 at 4:14:25 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#253113: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:22:15 PM

Looking through the thread, I saw a few discussions about him - I can't quite pin down which one got him cut, but it's Offscreen Villainy coupled with too low heinousness for a Death Eater. He tortures the Longbottom's and kills his father, but that's really all he does and it's all offscreen.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 4:29:26 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#253114: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:23:44 PM

The problem is that while The films removed his sympathetic qualities they also took out his worst deeds which would have made him heinous enough. Basically 2003 Envy from FMA

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#253115: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:31:00 PM

[up] So, they removed the redeeming qualities that prevented him from qualifying, but also removed the deeds that would've help him qualify..... Sounds rather confusing.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#253116: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:37:13 PM

Unsure on Si, given how immensely steep Preacher's HS is.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#253117: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:40:39 PM

Ah right Si.

I uh don't know. This is Preacher

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Keet96 Good Hunter from Anor Londo Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Good Hunter
#253118: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:44:41 PM

Oh, also, regarding Preacher: I don't think Jody counts. He's acting out of loyalty to Miss. Marie, seems to genuinely be in love with her, and saves a girl and a man he found annoying from a Cuban drug lord, even though he could have walked away at any time.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#253119: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:59:42 PM

I have some suggestions for the Aladdin entries.

Maybe put above them "Most of Aladdin's enemies have some degree of comedic traits. However, things get much darker when these two are around"

Also, for Mirage's entry, I'm not sure she's a goddess. Most sources refer to her as a sorceress and Chaos refers to her as an elemental. We should probably remove the word 'goddess', just to be safe.

Edited by TVRulezAgain on Mar 30th 2021 at 7:32:30 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253120: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:04:27 PM

[up][up]Don't know about the rest, but "saves a girl and a man"? You sure you read the comic correctly? He left the man to be eaten by a crocodile and didn't give a shit about the girl, fully willing to let Cuban drug lord kill her. Here are the pages which tell you everything you need to know:

Here is the man:

1; 2

Here is the girl:

1; 2

You need to read the comic very much not in a way that was intended to think that Jody cared about "a man and a girl".

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:05:44 PM

Keet96 Good Hunter from Anor Londo Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Good Hunter
#253121: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:07:42 PM

I knew he didn't care about the annoying guy, but I got the sense he was joking when he implied he didn't count the bullets. Anyway, he still cares about Marie, and acts out of loyalty to her.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#253122: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:15:21 PM

He's a fanatic to Marie, but that's not portrayed in a redeeming way. Vile said everything about the other. Jodie is a stone sociopath with no regard for anyone.

That said? A yes to Si, I just checked to make sure and for a guy with zero resources, the serial murder and torture is, IMO, easily bad enough for what we're given.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253123: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:22:02 PM

What's Si's implied body count? And what happens to him?

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253124: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:26:10 PM

Jesse killed Si by punching him and using The Word to kill him by screaming "Die".

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:26:20 PM

Keet96 Good Hunter from Anor Londo Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Good Hunter
#253125: Mar 22nd 2021 at 2:29:11 PM

In that case, I withdraw my objection to Jody.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.

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