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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253076: Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:55:22 AM

Yes to the Picasso Killer and the Baroness

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#253077: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:17:53 AM

[tup] to Masago, Steppenwolf, Picasso and the Baroness. Cut Sander.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253078: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:41:56 AM

Yes to Steppenwolf; Picasso (another for Udo Kier); Baroness.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#253079: Mar 22nd 2021 at 1:59:10 AM

[tup] to Aaron "Picasso Killer" Garvey and Anastasia "the Baroness" DeCobray.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#253080: Mar 22nd 2021 at 5:18:26 AM

[tup] for Sigma, Morguase, Jinni, Ice Box Bob, Masago, Steppenwolf, Picasso and the Baroness.

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#253082: Mar 22nd 2021 at 5:53:16 AM

So, question regarding long running works:

If a work is currently in hiatus, and its potential candidate has done just enough to qualify, could I go ahead and make an EP for them? There's this Slender fanfic series, Blood and Venom, that's been on hiatus for quite a while now. The author has confirmed that they're still working on it, but even they admit that it'll be a while before they continue.

[down] Wait, the books aren't done yet? Geez, that's a long time.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 6:00:47 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253083: Mar 22nd 2021 at 5:57:57 AM

I think that's fine. We have the Song of Ice and Fire keepers.

EDIT: Might as well do these with this week's:

  • Posse: This duo of vile racists personify much of what was wrong with The Wild West:
    • Colonel Graham is the corrupt and racist commanding officer of the 10th Cavalry. After murdering a deserter when hero Jesse Lee refuses to do so, Graham tries to get the 10th Cavalry killed as deserters, later returning to hunt them down and kill whoever gets in the way. Allying with the equally wicked Sheriff Bates, Graham attempts to wipe out the town of Freemanville in his quest to murder Jesse.
    • Sheriff Bates of Cutterstown is a racist KKK member who led the lynching of Jesse's father, King David. Determined to murder Jesse, Bates attempts to lynch him as well, beating one of his friends to death when that fails. Upon the arrest of the posse, Bates frames Jesse by murdering Cutterstown's mayor himself and later allies with Graham to wipe out Freemanville, even killing his own partner there when the man quarrels with him.
  • Yojimbo: Ushitora, rival of Seibei, is one of the two gang leaders in the nameless town. Elevating the corrupt sake brewer Tokuemon to mayor, Ushitora murders a government official to keep his business secret and keeps Tokuemon's loyalty by having enslaved a man's wife from gambling debts and allows Tokuemon to use her as a Sex Slave. Upon seizing a chance to wipe out Seibei, Ushitora massacres Seibei, his men, and even his entire family while also torturing the Rōnin Sanjuro.

Edited by ACW on Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:41:48 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#253085: Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:52:59 AM

Well, if it's fine by you guys...

(Warning: this series has heavy traits of Tribe Twelve in it. This was before the whole nasty controversy with its creator came up, and the author themselves said that they don't support Noah in the slightest, even if they'll continue to use Tribe Twelve stuff in the story.)

What's the Work?

Blood and Venom is a fanfic based off of The Slender Man Mythos, combining the various video blogs based on it (Marble Hornets, Everyman Hybrid, Tribe Twelve, etc) and also throwing in SCP Foundation for good measure. While the series started as a adaptation of the Slender games, the latest installment promised to become more of its own thing. And then it went into hiatus. Apparently, the author isn't gonna be finished with a chunk of the series for a long time.

Anywho, like I said, the first two stories adapt the famous fan games, following a group of teenagers trying to avoid a certain well-dressed abomination. With that in mind...

Who is The Slender Man?

Good ol' Slendy himself, who's an amalgamation of both his enigmatic Greater-Scope Villain status in the blogs and the malicious sadism of the games. Clearly a safe combination.

What's he do?

Right off the bat, y'know how the blogs all shared a universe with each other? Well, the same applies here, only instead of being an unknowable force of nature, he's instead a sadistic being who loves to play with his victims. So right off the bat, he's got quite the rapt sheet on his belt. The story in particular focuses on the cult of proxies (Basically his slaves, for anyone unaware) called The Collective.

The first two stories, like I said, are adaptations of Slender and Slender: The Arrival, and for the most part they're pretty loyal adaptations. Since I don't wanna completely recap something that people are already familiar with, I'll just sum it up with bed crumbs:

  • Every character from the games get expanded upon, gaining more characterization than they had originally. Even Charlie is shown to be a bit more aware than he was in the original, which of course just makes his torment via his malnourished state that much worse.
  • Slender Man himself is no exception, being portrayed as the sadistic stalker he was said to be in the original, only here he's much more open about it, openly stating (Via telepathic communication) that he highly enjoys hunting down his victims. It even bites him in the ass a few times, as he's perfectly willing to let the victim get a head start just to draw out the game a bit. Despite this, nothing implies that he's Made of Evil, and he otherwise show's a eerily human personality.
  • Collective member Firebrand is shown to help his potential victims via giving them advice and convincing Slendy to draw out his hunts, taking advantage of his sadism to do so.
  • After the events of Slender, the protagonist Kate is still stalked by Slender Man, causing her to develop massive amounts of paranoia and turn her into a shut-in, completely ruining her life. Eventually, he and The Collective corner her and, after she flees into the forest, finally captures her, turning her into a Proxy for Slendy to use for another time.
  • The events of the next game, The Arrival, have Kate's friend Lauren once again being pursued by The Man while investigating the disappearance of her friend CR, with Slendy cranking up his mindfuckery Up To Eleven, outright sparing her just to extend her torment and purposely downplaying his powers, such as how his mere presence causes Mind Rape, just to prolong her suffering. He also sics a crazed Kate on her at a few points. Eventually, like the original game, she is ultimately captured and presumably turned into a Proxy by Kate.
  • Finally, the fic goes into more detail about how he abducted the child Charlie, outright pretending to be his imaginary friend, Mr. Slim, and luring him into his forest before making it clear that, no, he is not his friend, before capturing him. We later see him in the ending, having been mutilated and malnourished but still slightly sane, clearly in suffering from Slendy.

Thankfully, the fourth story, In Nocturn, focuses on an entirely original story, and Slendy commits one hell of a vile gambit.

Y'see, Laura's old friends also decide to investigate the Man, initially dismissing him as a "Viral meme". However, as they come across a abandoned cabin, they discover a bunch of Slendy Cultists there, who proceed to attack the group to use as sacrifices. The young brother of Aaron, Ethan, manages to hide under a tree stump, only to be found by a bunch of cultists. As they try to lure him out, suddenly Slendy appears and, having formulated a plan to lure him out, brutally massacres the cultists. He lets Ethan believe he "saved" him, and approaches the Man. We don't see what happens, but Aaron later stumbles upon the result: A dead child hung on a tree, having been put up there by Slender Man just to mock the group. Aaron takes this about as well as you'd expect, and later wakes up in a hospital, having fainted from the sight for obvious reasons.

The Slender Man isn't seen for the rest of the (Unfinished) chapters, but what does happen is that the group decides to try and put a stop to the cult responsible, and the last chapter has them once again attacked by cult members.

Any Migitating Factors?

Nope. It's made abundantly clear that Slendy is fully aware of how cruel his "Games" are, relishing playing Cat and Mouse with his victims. He also pretends to be Charlie's imaginary friend for what's implied to be quite a while, and tricks Ethan out of hiding by pretending to be his friend, so he can also comprehend good. Overall, no Blue-and-Orange Morality or Made of Evil here.

The only time he ever shows mercy, letting his victims get a head start, is stated to be him just letting his games drag out longer, and while he seemingly agrees with Firebrand bargaining for Kate being spared for a bit, we never get specifics on that conversation, and either way it's implied just to be "Give her more time to drag out the game and get more enjoyment out of it".

TDLR, its stated that any act of mercy he shows is just him dragging out his torture, something that the protagonists are wise to realize (And exploit at times).

Heinousness?

Literally is the standard. Being the figurehead of a murderous cult, being responsible for the various blogs, showing the same sadism from his games, having the events of the game on his sheet, even underplaying his powers just to torture people. You friggin bet he breaks it, even with the healthy amount of candidates we have proper (HABIT makes an appearance, but he does nothing but form an Enemy Mine with Firebrand, suggesting that Slendy is worse.)

Is the fic Trash?

Thankfully not. Actually developed characters, a coherent plot, genuine hope alongside all the misery, a light moment here and there between the protagonists, it's all pretty legit. It's bleak, but not to an Trashy degree.

Overall?

Is the story not over yet? no. Is it still on hiatus for years now? Yup. Does Slendy do enough to justify an EP? Possibly.

The main problem is if these stories are different enough to justify a different version, but I think the addition of the Blogs to the lore, the expanded details of what happened, and the stuff Slendy does in the 4th chapter so far possibly pushes him to be more unique.

What do you guys think?

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:58:01 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#253086: Mar 22nd 2021 at 8:35:19 AM

[tup] Slenderman.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#253087: Mar 22nd 2021 at 8:37:09 AM

Tentative [tup] to Saul Slendaman (cookie to whoever gets that reference).

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 22nd 2021 at 8:37:56 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253091: Mar 22nd 2021 at 8:58:28 AM

On JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Dio is listed under Phantom Blood, even through in his entry he is called Overarching Villain. Judging by how Kurgan is placed in Highlander and how Wesker is placed in Resident Evil (as well as many other Overarching Villain types in many Monster pages), i ask maybe we should do something similiar with Dio and put him like "Series-wide" or something like that, to avoid the dissonance and it will be more accurate (since he isn't exclusive to any specific parts, like everyone else on the page).

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253092: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:02:38 AM

Hmm, that may be a good idea, assuming he doesn't just briefly appear in the other stories.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#253093: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:02:50 AM

[tup]Weird Blank faced Tree limbed white guy

[up][up]yeah that sounds good.

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:02:59 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#253094: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:04:37 AM

So, like this?

  • Dio Brando, debuting in Phantom Blood, is the Overarching Villain of the entire series, rising from humble beginnings to become a global threat. After murdering his abusive father, Dio is taken in by the kind-hearted George Joestar and starts to covet his wealth, so Dio goes about ruining his adopted brother Jonathan's life, attempting to gouge out an eye, stealing the first kiss from his girlfriend Erina, and burning his beloved dog alive. Dio later poisons George in an attempt to claim his inheritance, and after being thwarted, stabs him fatally as a blood sacrifice to activate the Stone Mask and become a vampire. Dio then renounces his humanity and sets up a base in a nearby medieval town, draining its inhabitants of life one-by-one. When a mother agrees to let Dio zombify her on the condition that he doesn't lay a hand on her baby, he watches with amusement as the zombified woman eats her own child. After being defeated by Jonathan and reduced to a disembodied head, Dio stalks and murders Jonathan on his honeymoon cruise, before stealing Jonathan's body. Returning in Part III, Dio tries to prevent Jotaro and his friends from reaching him by having a hitman bring down the passenger plane they're on, and murdering his loyal right-hand woman Enya Geil to ensure that she doesn't divulge his powers. In the climactic confrontation with Jotaro and company, Dio abducts a man, forces him to drive at lethal speeds through crowds of pedestrians in pursuit of his foes, and then kills him by using him as a projectile. Part VI reveals details about the now-deceased Dio's grand plan: he manipulated his fanatically loyal follower Enrico Pucci into seeking to rewrite reality into Dio's warped vision of "heaven", meaning nothing but unchecked power for Dio and more grovelling support from his underlings.

EDIT: Also, is this able to be trimmed? Bullseye has a fairly long entry—which is fine, he's Bullseye—but this is noticeably longer, and this dude appears in fewer than 30 issues:

  • The third Mister Fear, Lawrence "Larry" Cranston, assumed the identity of Mister Fear after the deaths of the first two holders. A college rival of Matt's, Cranston resents Matt Murdock for having done better in law school than he did, and tries to ruin his life, using fear gas to induce panic attacks in his victims. Following his return in the 90s after a lengthy hiatus, Mister Fear III triggered a prison riot with his fear gas and escaped, leaving numerous dead. He also freed Serial Killer Charles Burroughs and supervillain Molten Man, and caused them to both go on rampages, while framing Karen Page, Matt's then Love Interest for murder to boot; he later executed Burroughs for "going off script". It was during Ed Brubaker's run, however, that Fear III showed just how low he could go. He provided Lily Lucca with a perfume that permanently altered her body chemistry the men around her to go insane and kill each other, promising to fix her if she aided him, despite there being no cure. He then used his fear gas to drive reformed supervillain Melvin Potter/Gladiator into a psychotic break, leading to the deaths of dozens after a rampage through Chinatown. While all this is going on, he takes the place of Milla Donovan—Matt's wife's—psychiatrist, and drives her into a paranoid breakdown, leaving her institutionalised. He discovered that he can use his fear gas, which he now secretes from his pores, to force women to sleep with him, something he does many times through the arc. Effectively impossible to punish, Mister Fear III was last seen in prison, forcing the other inmates to do his work, and raping a female prison guard.
I've not read them, but I can try it:
  • Lawrence "Larry" Cranston, who resents Matt Murdock for having done better in law school than he did, assumed the identity of Mister Fear after the deaths of the first two holders. Cranston, as Mister Fear III, then tries to ruin Matt's life, using fear gas to induce panic attacks in his victims. Cranston later triggered a prison riot with his fear gas and escaped, leaving numerous people dead. He also freed Charles Burroughs and supervillain Molten Man, and caused them to both go on rampages, while framing Karen Page, Matt's then-Love Interest, for murder to boot; he later executed Burroughs for "going off script". Cranston later provided Lily Lucca with a perfume that permanently altered her body chemistry, causing the men around her to go insane and kill each other, promising to fix her if she aided him, despite there being no cure. He then used his fear gas to drive reformed supervillain Melvin Potter/Gladiator into a psychotic break, leading to the deaths of dozens after a rampage through Chinatown. While all this is going on, Cranston takes the place of Milla Donovan—Matt's wife's psychiatrist—and drives her into a paranoid breakdown, leaving her institutionalized. Cranston discovered that he can use his fear gas, which he now secretes from his pores, to force women to sleep with him.

Edited by ACW on Mar 22nd 2021 at 12:20:01 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#253095: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:28:56 AM

I like it and support Larry's rewrite.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:29:09 PM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#253098: Mar 22nd 2021 at 10:57:05 AM

Was there a discussion for Chaos Walking (2021)? I couldn't find it on the history page for the dates page.

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:57:45 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#253099: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:31:12 AM

[tup] Steppenwolf, Fic!Slendy

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#253100: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:33:35 AM

Yeah for Slendy and Steppenwolf. For DIO I like the change but instead of "Part III" and "Part VI" I'd call them Stardust Crusaders and Stone Ocean to be consistent with how you did "Phantom Blood".


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