During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Mutant Master and Senator Davies.
Yes to the last three but is the timeline split for MK necessary? For Shang Tsung alone he can get a pretty simple trim:
- Shang Tsung is Shao Kahn's wicked right-hand man and an Evil Sorcerer extraordinaire who seeks to plunge Earthrealm into war. Shang Tsung was known by the gods themselves for his evil after he stole a soul long ago, something he continues to do at his leisure and allies with the equally horrible Quan Chi to betray Shao Kahn, seeking to open a path to the heavens and devour all the souls within to empower himself. Forming an uneasy alliance with other villains, Shang Tsung also works as a Mad Scientist for Shao Kahn, using the "Flesh Pits" to torture and vivisect people in attempts to create Tarkatan clones of Kitana. After Kronika's death and escaping the Void, Shang Tsung deceives the heroes into helping him get her crown, hoping to rewrite all of history to his whims, also having the heroes eliminated while keeping Raiden and Fujin alive to siphon their powers for all eternity, later electing to betray them and steal their souls.
Eh, I'll leave it up to you, I just don't think those entries need to be as long as they are. Shinnok is the same thing:
- Shinnok himself is a former Elder God who betrayed his fellow Gods out of an avericious want to rule Earthrealm and was banished to the Netherrealm for eternal torture for his monstrosity. Freed by the sorcerer Quan Chi, Shinnok overthrew Lucifer in the Netherrealm to take control of the hellscape and amass an army under himself. Attempting to take control of Earthrealm by invading the Heavens, Shinnok is thwarted by Raiden but returns in the new timeline to orchestrate conflict with Quan Chi as his proxy and unleashes the demons of the Netherrealm and manipulated souls of fallen heroes to attack Earthrealm for revenge against the Elder Gods. Corrupting the life force of Earthrealm, Shinnok means to leave it in eternal chaos and even when beaten, his evil infects Raiden to make his fellow God into something as evil as himself. Ultimately wishing to consume all that lived out of bloodlust and pettiness, Shinnok sought to awaken the destructive One Being to end all of reality.
I can try to trim the remaining one:
Shao Kahn, Emperor of Outworld, is a brutal warlord who seeks to merge all realms with his own. Having poisoned his master, Onaga, Shao Kahn would later subjugate many other worlds, including the peaceful Edenia, where he took King Jerrod's family for his own. Shao Kahn would later invade Earthrealm and, with the help of Sindel, who had been resurrected by Shang Tsung, would use his magic to rip out the souls of everyone in Earthrealm while sending his extermination squads to hunt down survivors. Managing to trick everyone into helping him take Blaze's power, Shao Kahn proudly announces his intention to start an Armageddon and destroy the Earth. In the new timeline, Shao Kahn uses Shang Tsung's Flesh Pits to create Mileena, a psychotic clone of Kitana and continues his brutal conquests, draining Shang Tsung of life to empower Sindel to slaughter Earthrealm's defenders. Upon being recruited by Kronika, Shao Kahn turns on her and plans to take her Hourglass for himself to build his own empire spanning across all the realms, deciding to achieve this by wiping out both Kronika and Earthrealm's forces.
MK rewrites, Double M, Senator Davies, and Pablo
- Beyond Forgiveness (aka Blood of the Innocent) (1994):
- Dr. Lem, a seemingly jovial organ doctor, is actually one of the heads of an organ harvesting conspiracy. A sadist who participated for money and satisfaction, Lem partners with the Russian mob to bring him innocents to remove their organs, while making sure to keep his patients numb, but awake to experience the pain of their surgery. With children not even safe from this, once Frank and his lover Anna are in his mitts, Lem tries to remove a conscious Frank’s heart, while planning to keep Anna all to himself. Slitting his conspirer Morszytn’s throat for letting Frank escape, Lem tries to makes a getaway with Anna by his side, threatening to mutilate and molest her unless Frank leaves him alone.
- Zelepukhin and his mute gunman Scarface are the heads of the Russian mob assisting Lem in his organ harvesting operation. With the two originally dealing in prostitution, Scarface is tasked to lure strangers into his limousine to have their organs harvested—with children not even off-limits—while also keeping track of the organ trades. Scarface kickstarts the plot by killing Frank’s younger brother Marty, and, under Zelepukhin’s orders, massacres an entire marketplace after Frank arrives, even using one of his own men as a human shield.
Also heads up, the website that houses the Highlander remake and Sherlock Holmes and the Vengeance of Dracula scripts works properly now, so here are the updated links:
- Sherlock Holmes and the Vengeance of Dracula
- Unproduced Highlander remake script
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 13th 2021 at 9:19:00 AM
It's Spooky Month!The second candidate from Secret Service: Ultimate Sacrifice
The man, who orchestrated it all, President Geraldo Deldago Vargas or simply President Vargas
Who is President Vargas?
As told in the opening, Vargas was the former soldier, who took the opportunity to sieze the Costa Sentava's government, when the country was undergoing a crisis and although he was defeated and jailed at first, he managed to turn the situation around by gathering a more massive army and succeding in overthrowing the former president. Establishin a tyranical rule, Vargas opressed his own people and openly hated americans, supporting any terrorist acts against the US' government. When the people started to rebel against him, Vargas ordered his military to use the deadly CVX gas against them, resulting in over a 100 horrible deaths. Setting up many attacks, that were meant to make Costa Sentava's hate americans, as he framed americans for them, Vargas didn't care if one of hiw own family members was hurt by them, as demonstarted when one of his ploys ended up killing his own aunt and he simply used it as a political tool, to rally more people behind him, not showing any sights of giving an actual shit.
Allying with Senator Davies, Vargas has Davies smuggle a lot of CVX into the capital building of D.C. in hopes of destroying it, during the president meeting there, along with the rest of US' political figures, solely so he could turn US into the "second Sentava" and rule it. When Pierce and his secret ally started to foil his schemes, Vargas grows more furious. When his allies and men failed, Vargas left a message, wishing them to rot and saying to his american allies to "die in the country that you have betrayed", openly hoping that the americans would torture them, promising that "It Isn't Over".
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None. As said before, while in one of his speeches he promises to "avenge my aunt", later on it's revealed that he was the one, who organized the attack that led to her death, despite knowing that she was there and could be killed.
The only mitigating thing is, Vargas never appears in person, all we hear from him are audio messages (quite a few of them) to his men and his enemies aka US (these messages literally fall off his men, when they die), nevertheless, a lot of showings of his atrocities and he himself making it openly clear in his audio messages that he was the mastermind of the attack on US, openly talking to his men and making political speeches on TV, does make his presence known, since the rest of the characters also openly say that everything is Vargas' doing and if we can approve of Kim Jong Un from Homefront, i think Vargas is good, since he has more personality and dialogue than Kim.
Once again, all audio messages can be listned to here
.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
The true mastermind behind the events of the game, brutally opresses his own people, used CVX against the rebellion to his rule (we see a lot
of dead
bodies after such
attacks), desired to kill off all US' politicians by destroying D.C. and orchestrated a lot of terrorist attacks to convince his people to join his cause against US.
Final Verdict?
What do you think?
to that President Evil
'Yes' to Mutant Master, Davies, Vargas, and the MK rewrites, greatly approve of them, 43!
Since someone just mentioned it? I've been reading up on the Jurassic Park expanded universe novels and comics and may very well have candidates to discuss soon enough, so all can look forward to that in very near future.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
