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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#251651: Mar 12th 2021 at 2:30:47 PM

Wait, there's been another officially announced animated film?

BTW, I'm gonna cheat a little. Rovin's book came out later, but since The Journey Begins is a quasi-prequel, I'm slotting it right before the films.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251655: Mar 12th 2021 at 4:42:49 PM

  • Zaiden is the leader of the largest gnoll tribe in service to Yeenoghu. A monster the moment she was out of the womb who ignores even the few societal standards the gnolls have, such as their familial connections, Zaiden butchered all her siblings soon after birth, sacrificed her mother and made her father her unwilling mate until she tired of him as well. Nowadays, Zaiden dreams of the day Yeenoghu will make her his bride and spends her days having countless people tortured and slaughters on scales unmatched by any of his other followers, including many of her own luckless minions.

  • Bravely Default II:
    • Folie, the Arc Villain of chapter 2 and the wielder of the Pictomancer Asterisk, was a Lonely Rich Kid empowered by Edna who used the chance to start pursuing her artistic ambitions. Folie took part in the destruction of Musa, reminiscing fondly about how "fun" the slaughter was, and for the duration of chapter 2 operates as a serial killer in the city of Wiswald, murdering several noted scholars in the city all for the sake of using their blood in her artwork. In her cruelest touch, Folie murdered a young girl named Mona, then brainwashed Mona's parents into her slaves by using her cursed paintings to drive them insane with the belief Mona was still alive.
    • Helio, the Arc Villain of chapter 3 and the wielder of the Spiritmaster Asterisk, is the true power behind the corrupt, dragon-worshiping theocracy of Rimedhal. A spy from Holograd sent to destabilize the entire nation from within and eliminate anyone who could stand up to the conquest, Helio manipulated his fellow Asterisk wielders Dominec and Gladys into setting up the "judgments." As chief inquisitor of these judgments, Helio has any innocent people who stood up to the church made out to be fairies and forces them to plunge into a frozen ravine called the Jaws of Judgment to "prove" they're innocent, a regular process that had led to countless deaths over a decade. When the time finally comes for Holograd to invade, Helio murders Domenic himself and pauses in his escape to cruelly mock the dying Gladys that he was the one who killed her parents and set Gladys off on her path to begin with by pinning it on the fairies.
    • Vigintio, wielder of the Arcanist Asterisk, was a deranged sorcerer in life killed by his prestigious rival Lady Emma after he turned to experimenting on innocent people. Before he died, Vigintio perfected a formula that allowed him to become undead, a formula he uses to whip up a massive undead army in the pursuit of his revenge. To spite Lady Emma's name, Vigintio intends to have the entire city of Wiswald massacred by his army and converted to their ranks, all after he's tied up his old colleague Roddy from the highest point in Wiswald to ensure he sees every moment of the slaughter.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 12th 2021 at 5:44:59 AM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#251656: Mar 12th 2021 at 5:09:18 PM

[tup] to the Desaad rewrite, Zaiden, Julian McCaffrey, Folie, Helio, Vigintio, The Advisor, Eda Arul, Dark Faerie, Retak'ka, Hazel Rainart, the Eda Arul image, the Fallen London rewrite, Rene D'anclaude, and Shang Tsung.

[tdown] to Junyo Kaneshiro, all of the Uncle Charlie quotes (all of them aren't depraved enough to me), the Advisor quote, and both Charles Oakley images (not heinous enough in my opinion).

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#251657: Mar 12th 2021 at 6:34:23 PM

[tup] to Shang

Well I’m leaving Las Vegas tomorrow morning and traveling to Florida to see my dad, so until then I’ll catch you guys later

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251658: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:07:34 PM

Yes to Shang Tsung. I got us some quick candidates today from some of DC's old war comics...

What's the setting?

Back in the 70s and 80s, war comics were really big with DC and Marvel. One of the big ones was Ulysses Hazard, AKA Gravedigger, a black man struck by polio who powered his way through the disease to become the epitome of a Determinator war hero. Gravedigger was compiled in Men of War alongside Enemy Ace, and I've got two quick candidates from the comic.

The first is from issue #5, "Valley of the Shadow."

Who is General Schlemer? What has he done?

An eeeeevil Nazi general who has taken over a small French town known as Touborne, located deep within the mountains and being used as a French resistance stronghold, Schlemer takes over the town and immediately starts abusing the citizens. When a priest stands up to Schlemer's rule, Schlemer executes him in front of the statue of the Virgin Mary, proclaiming there is no God but the Fuehrer.

Schlemer intends to kill every innocent man, woman and child in Touborne, and he doesn't waste time. Schlemer forces innocent people to dig open their own graves, half-dozens at a time, before having them executed by his firing squads. Ultimately Schlemer tries to bring down an entire avalanche upon the town to bury every living soul within it, a plan that goes catastrophically wrong when the avalanche is detonated to bury him and his men instead.

Any mitigating factors?

The Nazis in this series were usually nondescript—a perishing few even made the occasional Heel–Face Turn. Generally the Nazis' plots were military in nature, even with Big Bad Joseph Goebbels—bomb a target here, poison some Allied soldiers with a plague, so on, so forth. There were only a few issues that went smack-dab into the horror of what the Nazis were really doing (including my next candidate). Those who targeted innocent people were always the worst of the lot, and Schlemer is no exception to that. He's willing to kill an entire town and he slaughters a hell of a lot of people before that.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 12th 2021 at 9:21:21 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#251660: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:20:03 PM

[tup] Schlemmer.

[tup] Errybody Shang Tsung Tonite!

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#251661: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:20:12 PM

An eeeeeasy [tup] for Schlemer

It's Spooky Month!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#251662: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:30:34 PM

[tup] General Schlemer

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251664: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:41:08 PM

And issue #11 ("Berkstaten")...we have Von Krugger.

Who is Von Krugger? What has he done?

Von Krugger is the Surgeon General of the Berkstaten concentration camp and by all appearances the overseer of all the atrocities there. Von Krugger isn't just handing off inmates literal hundreds at a time to be exterminated; he's subjecting them to unspeakably horrific, prolonged medical torture first.

From the many, many haggard victims we see in the Berkstaten camp, Ulysses is seeking the mother of a Jewish child he's taken in—only to find that Von Krugger has been torturing her for so long her "soul is gone." Von Krugger refuses to let her die and keeps her alive in a pure state of And I Must Scream hooked up to his machines. A withered old man present in the same room as the mother confesses that not only has he seen Von Krugger torture her in unspeakable ways, he's been the subject of that same torture—Von Krugger's attempt to "clinically" prove the inferiority of the Jewish people.

The old man is in such a state of torture he begs for Ulysses to simply euthanize him and the mother to put them out of their misery. Ulysses can't bring himself to do it, but Von Krugger himself can—when Von Krugger corners him, he shoots the mother dead just to make a point about how the Nazis are gods and they can decide who lives and who dies at their own whim. Von Krugger subsequently orders a young Nazi private to kill Ulysses, only for the private to kill Von Krugger and then himself in sheer horror of what he's witnessed.

Any mitigating factors?

I think I'm safe leaving this as a blanket "no."

Conclusion?

Easy, easy keep.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#251666: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:44:48 PM

Uhhhhh... yeah that seems like an easy, easy yes.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#251667: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:48:23 PM

Dr. Dick is an easy yes. I wonder if old military, Western, fantasy, etc. comics that you basically hear nothing about anymore might be an untapped vein. I know we have Dark Opal, for one.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#251668: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:52:20 PM

[tup] to the two Nazis.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#251669: Mar 12th 2021 at 8:53:24 PM

[tup]Schlemer and Krugger.

Why so serious?
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#251672: Mar 12th 2021 at 10:31:24 PM

[tup]gravedigger duo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#251675: Mar 12th 2021 at 11:55:08 PM

[tup] to General Schlemer and Von Krugger.


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