During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
- 24: The Game
: Peter Madsen is a ruthless mercenary working for Max. After Joseph Sin-Chung sabotages CTU headquarters with an EMP, Madsen and his mercenaries storm the building and take everyone hostage. When Madsen realizes Kim Bauer encrypted a hard drive he and Sin-Chung were trying to decrypt so they could expose undercover agents' identities, Madsen starts executing CTU personnel, and later kidnaps Kim. Madsen also murders his partner, Sid Wilson, because he couldn't find an escape route for him, and has all of his men killed. Opting to destabilize Los Angeles, Madsen and his team placed several bombs at various focal points in the city, one of which exploded and caused an earthquake that killed hundreds and created a citywide blackout. On Max's orders, Madsen kidnapped Kate Warner so as to force her father, Bob, into helping them smuggle nuclear materials out of the country.
- Norman Bridewell is an intelligent but slimy and egotistic nerd whose unassuming exterior hides a petty, vicious psychopath who will stoop to any depth to benefit himself. Debuting in the "Blood Price" two-part series premiere, Norman summons a demon to bring him everything his heart desires. Informed that each time will require a blood sacrifice, Norman doesn't care, continually asking for more. Developing an obsessive desire for Coreen Ferrel, Norman orders the demon to make her boyfriend one its victims, and then for her to love him. Duped into believing Astaroth will grant this wish, Norman happily goes along with more sacrifices, even directly ordering the demon to murder a blonde woman who rejected him when he forcibly came onto her. Defeated and sucked into Hell, he escapes in "Norman", being granted demonic powers, which he uses to brutally kill people and trick Vicki into helping him complete the ritual. Forcing Vicki to bring to him the last artifact, Norman tries to release Astaroth upon the world, despite knowing how much destruction it will bring.
- "Heart of Ice" & "Heart of Fire": Monsignor Javier Mendoza is the former Grand Inquisitor of The Spanish Inquisition, notorious for "persuading" confessions out of victims. Imprisoning Henry in 1742, Mendoza tortured him for days on end, pushing him to the brink. When his devotee Maria had been turned into a vampire, he immediately drove a stake through her heart and decided to purge the vampires. Torturing the secrets out of "Iluminación del Sol" out of a mystic, Mendoza used this weapon to cripple the vampires by attaching it to them and letting it drive spikes into their hearts, as he drained them of their blood and used it to extend his life. After over 250 years of hunting vampires and draining their blood for the ritual, Mendoza arrived in Toronto, capturing and torturing Delphine Guillaume, whom Henry sired, and leaves her chained up so she burns to death upon daybreak. Framing Henry for the murder of a prostitute to manipulate Mike Celluci into incapacitating Henry, Mendoza kidnaps and brutally tortures Henry, demanding Henry confess for imagined sins. When the broken Henry finally does so in an attempt to save Vicki, Mendoza refuses to accept his confession and tries to make the out-of-control Henry kill Vicki, just to further his suffering.
- G.I. Joe (2019): Anastasia DeCobray, better known as The Baroness, is a cheerfully destructive Cobra officer with zero allegiance to any ideology except violence itself. Revealed to be the one who suggested the utter decimation of Indianapolis and its population to quell rebellion, the Baroness continues to suggest similarly brutal tactics in the present, threatening to destroy any and every city across America that G.I. Joe crops up in with no care for the body count. Commissioning Dr. Mindbender to perform inhumane experiments on reviving dead Cobra troops, the Baroness casually sentences a Cobra guard to be taken apart by Mindbender and shows her further distaste for her own subordinates when she snaps a Cobra operative's neck to use him as a Human Shield. The Baroness cements herself as the worst the otherwise well-intentioned Cobra has to offer in this continuity, basking in her belief that destroying hope is "beautiful".
- The Quickening: On an Earth gone to seed, these miscreants who eventually ally are two of the worst villains in this branch of the canon:
- General Katana is a ruthless tyrant responsible for those rebelling against him being banished as Immortals to kill each other in the first film. Incensed by Connor MacLeod winning the Prize and going on to live peacefully, Katana ventures to hunt down and kill his adversary, murdering hundreds of subway passengers for his own sick amusement. Allying himself with Shield Corporation CEO David Blake, who is holding the Earth under a dome falsely claimed to save the planet from the damaged ozone, Katana uses his collaborator's resources to hunt for Connor before killing him and facing Connor, while trying to stop him from deactivating the shield.
- David Blake is the wheedling, corrupt head of the Shield Corporation who cares only for profit. Despite knowing of the Shield's danger and the safety of switching it off, Blake keeps it up, knowing countless people will sicken and die as a result so he can continue to enrich himself through his monopoly. For those who defy his rule, Blake is eager to send them to a horrific prison where they face mistreatment, torture, and painful death, later allying with General Katana before trying to kill the heroes by crushing them with a giant fan.
- Isshiki Otsutsuki, more commonly known as Jigen, came to earth to create a new God Tree to consume all life in order to give himself a new Chakra Fruit to evolve further. Upon being betrayed by Kaguya, Isshiki stole the body of a young monk named Jigen, keeping him prisoner in his own mind for a thousand years as he formed Kara. Being responsible for the deaths and experiments of Kara, including the horrific deaths of all prospective vessels save Code and Kawaki, Isshiki later emerges to try to steal Kawaki's body with the plan being to resume the God Tree to consume the world. After his death, his spirit leaves his will to Code, telling him to devour world after world, inheriting Jigen's desire to become a god.
- Malcolm Danvers is a power-hungry werewolf and Jeremy's abusive father. When Jeremy became alpha, Malcolm left the pack, and reemerged after his assumed death, as the orchestrator behind the mutt uprising, using Daniel Santos to recruit psychopaths, killers, and rapists to destroy his son's pack, resulting in the murders of several innocent people and Jeremy's pack members. Malcolm also stalks Elena; he has Victor Olson, who molested her as a child, turned and having him show up at an art gallery to torment her. Malcolm shrugs off the deaths of his army; confronts Jeremy about his intentions on continuing their war, taking Elena for himself; kills her boyfriend, leaving his head for her to find; and kidnaps Logan's pregnant girlfriend Rachel. Malcolm claims his reasoning for the latter is to punish Elena for wanting to have a human life. Finding himself stalked by Aleister, Malcolm goes on the run, leaving his followers to die, and killing am old man who gave him a ride. It's also revealed that Malcolm tried to kill Clayton as a child, being the werewolf who bit him, and killed Clayton's mother that same night, resulting in his father committing suicide.
- Thomas LeBlanc is a deranged misogynistic Serial Killer and Serial Rapist, who kept a scrapbook of his previous exploits complete with parts of his victims. Recruited to Daniel Santos's army, LeBlanc takes part in an ambush in which he stabs Jeremy with a poisoned blade, before Elena breaks LeBlanc's wrist while interrogating him for the antidote. Forming a vendetta towards Elena, LeBlanc plays a cat and mouse game with her, and callously kills a woman he mistook for Elena. When Amber demands to be turned into a werewolf, LeBlanc bites her and watches with amusement as she goes through a painful botched transformation, which reduces her to a vegetative state. LeBlanc has fun chasing down and trying to kill Logan's pregnant girlfriend, and when the time comes to attack Stonehaven, defies orders to keep Elena alive, intending her to be the first in a new scrapbook he's planning. A deviant who admits to having no morals, and openly disdains his allies, LeBlanc's habits and attitude cross enough lines that one of his bosses, Karl Marsten, decides to help Elena kill him when he's had enough of LeBlanc.
- Clara Sullivan was once a rebellious and spiteful young witch. While she had a moment of humanity, where she delivered and rescued a baby from death, knowing the prophecies of him growing up to be the Destroyer, she would later use this act later in life for more nefarious purposes. Having her magic stripped away as punishment for killing people, Clara would later track this child, Aleister, down and reveal his destiny to him, to bring about the Undoing—which would kill every witch on the planet—for revenge. With Clara as Aleister's partner and mentor, Aleister gains a cult and army, entailing mass murder, torture, and brainwashing on numerous people. Clara has Aleister seek women for her to possess, either destroying their souls or trapping them in their own mind. Clara wants the body of young Savannah in order to survive the Undoing, and take Savannah's powers for her own. When the time of the Undoing comes and an attempt to kill Aleister starts to prevent it, Clara and Aleister track down his mother Ruth to kill her, and when Savannah tries to escape, Clara chases her down, gloating about how she'll use her powers to cause havoc and kill Savannah's friends.
- "The Outlaw Armaggon!": Overmind is a malicious AI convinced of his own superiority, who overthrew and killed off most of his factory's crew upon gaining sapience. When reactivated by the Bounty Hunter Armaggon, Overmind immediately overrides Professor Honeycutt's mind to assume control of his body and attempts to forcibly roboticize the Turtles and their friends. Eventually, Overmind betrays even Armaggon, revealing his plan to use an army of Warbots to wipe out all organic life across the galaxy and pave the way for Overmind's own technological rule, trying to simply kill Honeycutt and the Turtles when they stand in his way.
- The Treasure of Manhattan Island: Mr. Grasping is a crooked cheese factory owner and Chief McBrusque is his enforcer. Grasping viciously mistreats the mice working for him and threatens and uses the sadistic McBrusque to have any resistance beaten into submission, much to the latter's enjoyment. Trying to distract the workers by claiming peaceful natives living under New York City plan to attack them, Grasping sends McBrusque and his goons to detain one of the natives, though instead wind up catching Dr. Dithering, who Grasping tries to have executed via meat grinder. With his plans foiled, Grasping bitterly orders McBrusque to kill the native tribe.
- Delgo: Empress Sedessa, ruler of the barbaric Ando wastelands, was exiled from her royal family upon trying to assassinate her brother, the King of the Nohrin, succeeding in killing her sister-in-law the Queen. The reasons for her exile found in her genocidal hatred for the Lockni people, Sedessa personally flew to the frontlines while she was still with the Nohrin to ensure there were zero survivors of the Lockni villages she had attacked. Sedessa pays all mercy with treachery; when the ruling members of the Ando save her life, she gasses them to death, and she earns her Karmic Death trying to backstab the hero after he saved her life.
- Bungo Stray Dogs: Dead Apple: Tatsuhiko Shibusawa is a sociopathic researcher obsessed with finding the Ultimate Ability. To his ends, Shibusawa forced gifted children, most notably Atsushi Nakajima, to endure torturous experiments so he can activate their Abilities. Shibusawa's curiosities to see people's Abilities in action would lead him to cause the Dragon's Head Conflict in Yokohama that lasted for 88 days and resulted in 88 deaths. In the present, Shibusawa unleashes a mysterious fog onto the world that led to hundreds of people murdered by their own Abilities, before crystalizing said Abilities to collect, and would collaborate with Omasu Dazai and Fyodor Dostoevsky to spread his fog throughout Yokohama. Shibusawa would then backstab Dazai before fusing with him to become a dragon and destroy Yokohama. Becoming the "Singularity", Shibusawa allows his fog to engulf the planet and kill off every single Ability-user so he could absorb their Abilities to make himself more powerful.
- Black & White (Image Comics): Jake Chang, the head of Phoenix World Enterprises, is a former criminal who faked his death to become a respected and powerful figure, and intends to pursue global domination using heavy weaponry. Introduced raiding the Kamasaya brewery to access the weapons stashed underground, Chang has the factory workers—armed and unarmed alike—slaughtered, abducting the factory manager. Having the manager's niece, Whitney Samsung, committed to a psychiatric ward, Chang forces his workers to dig for the weaponry at the risk of their own safety, killing any who refused. After a confrontation with Whitney and her ally Reed Blackett, and a subsequent confrontation with a reporter, Chang has the reporter targeted in retaliation for mentioning his alleged illegal activities. Later torturing Whitney's uncle with an electric prod, Chang tries to have Whitney's inheritance signed over to him. Subsequently rigging his warehouse to explode, when Whitney and Blackett subdue his men, Chang abandons any survivors to their fates before detonating the warehouse.
- The Precinct, by Frank J. Barbiere, Cristhian Zamora, et al.: The Arch Duke of the Alchemy Academy intends to bring back alchemy as an everyday part of the Big City's steampunk-based life, all for the sake of his own pursuit to power. The Arch Duke commissions horrific mechanical monstrosities that rampage on the streets killing whoever they find in order to place pressure on the Big City's senate to use alchemy as a state solution, and when they refuse to cow the Arch Duke has the entire senate killed by his machines. The Arch Duke betrays and murders his own ally the Magistrate; comforts the Magistrate's disciple Josephine Winters before cruelly mind-controlling her; makes his mechanical insects to horribly burrow through the throat of a police constable; and ultimately unleashes his swarms on the entire city, trying to annihilate anyone who refuses to bow to him.
- Shaft: Imitation of Life, by David F. Walker, Dietrich Smith, et al.: Lou Peraino, or "Lollipop Lou", is a vile mobster running a pornography operation, happily dealing in the most extreme territories people can think of—even snuff—so long as he's paid. Lou has no issue addicting young men and women to drugs to force them to become "stars" for his films, and when he's tracked down by Shaft, Lou is about to use a Blaxploitation actor gang-raped by a bunch of men dressed in Klansmen suits.
- Volume 4's "Voice in the Darkness": "The Voice in the Darkness" is one of the many names given to an Ancient Evil entity responsible for the annihilation of countless civilizations throughout the universe. After being defeated by the Xel'Naga, it was imprisoned on a barren planet. When a group of researchers releases it, the Voice immediately shows its gratitude by slaughtering half of them and converting the other half into loyal minions. The conversion is a process, where the Voice brainwashes its victims, leaving them conscious to an extent, and feeds on them by slowly draining their psionic energy over a long period of time until they eventually die, with the Voice having inflicted this fate on many creatures. After a group of Protoss arrives, the Voice tries to convert them as well, successfully brainwashing Xy'tal and forcing him to try to kill Azimar. When Xy'tal resists its control, the Voice punishes him by engulfing his body in flames after which it attempts to massacre the entire band of Protoss. It is also strongly suggested that the Voice plans to resume its genocidal activities upon release until all beings have either been converted or killed.
- I Spit on Your Corpse (aka Girls for Rent) (1974): Sandra is a ruthless member of a criminal syndicate. Her boss is being blackmailed by a politician who is threatening to leak their operations if they do not give him a prostitute, so Sandra, along with Erica, recruit a young prostitute named Donna. They trick her into helping them kill the politician, and when she runs away, they are ordered to kill her to not leave any loose ends behind. During their search, Sandra attempts to kill a hitchhiker slowly and painfully and is angry when Erica denies her that. And when they come across Ben and his father, Sandra ends up seducing Ben and having sex with him despite knowing he doesn't even understand the concept. And then she ends up killing him and his father by blowing their brains out, disgusting even Erica. Eventually, when they find Donna along with Chuck, Sandra ends up killing Donna and leaves Erica behind, not caring if she is killed by Chuck.
- Jason Bourne:
- CIA Director Robert Dewey, the Greater-Scope Villain of the series, seeks to gain total control over the private lives of the American public. In the past, Dewey was one of the top minds behind Operation Treadstone, which used torture and brainwashing to turn U.S. servicemen into dangerous assassins. When Treadstone founder and Jason Bourne's father Richard Webb found out that Dewey had his sights set on his son, he tried to shut down the program and go public about it, only for Dewey to order his assassination in a False Flag Operation before manipulating Jason into enlisting. Going on to oversee other shady government projects, Dewey spearheads an operation known as Iron Hand, which uses a backdoor in the highly popular social network platform Deep Dream to violate the privacy of millions of American citizens, and has Jason's friend Nicky Parsons assassinated when she tries to leak info about it to the public. When Jason takes up Nicky's cause, Dewey hunts him, showing his ruthlessness by having his own agents callously killed and threatening the safety of a former CIA employee's family should the man reveal anything to Bourne during a violent interrogation. During the film's climax, Dewey tries to use another false flag terrorist operation to kill both CIA employee Heather Lee and his own co-conspirator Aaron Kaloor for undermining his authority.
- The Asset, Dewey's chief henchman, is first seen during the chase scene in Athens, where he murders several bystanders just to set up a sniper nest with which to ambush Bourne and Nicky. The Asset later derails Heather Lee's attempt to make contact with Bourne by murdering his fellow CIA operatives sent to monitor the meeting, callously disregarding the fact that they are his comrades and that they have nothing to do with his beef with Bourne. Finally, after failing in his attempt to assassinate Kalloor and Lee in Vegas, the Asset murders a LVMP SWAT officer, hijacks his SWAT truck, and charges it straight into a traffic full of civilian cars just to put a few yards of distance from Bourne. In the climactic fight with Bourne, the Asset denounces Bourne as "a traitor, always has been a traitor," even though he's the one who railroaded Bourne into the CIA by using a car bomb to kill Bourne's father, a loyal CIA employee, and attributing it to a terrorist organization.
- Maximum Impact (1992): Mr. Huntsacker is the head of Huntsacker Industries, a criminal organization that supplies people with whatever twisted entertainment they want, from child pornography to snuff films. Introduced fondly recounting a story to his underling Bernie about how he once castrated a man and gutted him during his time as a Mafia hitman, Huntsacker used his ties to the pimp Jameson to secure the young Tonya for himself, having also sold her younger brother to child pornographers. After a snuff film goes poorly, resulting in Tonya's escape with the salesman Jerry, Huntsacker shoots Bernie and sends his men out to get her back, resulting in the death of Jerry's girlfriend. Viewing his men as mere tokens, Huntsacker later holds Tonya at gunpoint in an attempt to kill Jerry.
- Monster (2014): Tae-soo, the titular monster, is hired to recover a cellphone from a blackmailer and makes the simple operation a living hell for everyone involved. A natural born killer since he was a child, Tae-soo is fond of murdering people for no reason, cremating the bodies, and then using their ashes to make pottery for his vast collection of trophies, claiming over a hundred victims. Properly introduced killing a couple in front of his own brother, Tae-soo sabotages the mission by killing the blackmailer and trying to do the same to her 10-year-old little sister for fun, slaughtering any obstacles and witnesses along the way. A soulless savage in human skin, Tae-soo was even willing to murder his own adoptive family.
- The Poughkeepsie Tapes: Edward "Ed" Carver began his prolific killing spree with the rape and murder of a little girl, which he later followed up with a string of sexual tortures, murders, and mutilations that he would tape to revisit. Taking interest in a college girl named Cheryl Dempsey, Ed viciously murders her boyfriend and abducts her, holding her captive and brainwashing her into becoming his Sex Slave and accomplice over the course of several years. With the public beginning to catch wind of his killings, Ed starts killing prostitutes under the persona of the Water Street Butcher so that he can continue his murderous rampage while lulling the public into a false sense of security. Framing police officer James Foley for the murders of the prostitutes, Ed kills several more women as Foley is put to death, eventually giving up his location and the now-brainwashed Cheryl, desecrating her grave after she's Driven to Suicide to further hurt her family and to defile her corpse.
- Project: Metalbeast: Colonel Peter Alexander Miller is the jovial head of a shady government plot, who discovered the existence of werewolves and aims to create super soldiers of them. When his soldier, Donald Butler, turns himself into a werewolf, Miller has him shot and put in cryogenics, before ordering a witness to be killed. Resurfacing decades later, Miller takes control of another project to create synthetic skin from a metal substance, using Butler as a guinea pig; when Butler awakes with his mind a mess, Miller drives him to further psychological trauma. The end result was to create a werewolf with metallic skin, that would be the perfect obedient soldier for Miller. When Butler transforms into a ravenous, unstoppable monster, Miller shrugs off the deaths he causes and tries to personally kill the witnesses; shooting out General Hammond's knees and leaving him to be mauled, even cracking a joke about it when confronted.
- The Protector (1997): Dr. Ramsey Krago is known as a genius virologist and philanthropist whose charitable ventures hide a depraved sociopath. Krago manufactures viruses and their vaccines, testing them on luckless individuals, but releases the viruses first to kill many people before he brings out the vaccines to profit off them. Murdering a scientist who knows the truth, Krago later poisons a company board member with one of his own concoctions to agonizingly kill the man, plotting on releasing a new virus to kill millions and profit more than ever before.
- Willy's Wonderland: Jerry Robert Willis was the owner and founder of Willy's Wonderland, using the entertainment center to mask the fact that he was one of the century's most twisted, sadistic serial killers. Working with his depraved staff, Willis would butcher and cannibalize entire families for years, eventually committing suicide in a Satanic ritual that transferred the souls of Willis and his employees into the animatronics populating Willy's Wonderland. Becoming "Willy Weasel", Willis continued to kill children and even slaughter his way through Hayesville's schools and shops before striking a deal with Sheriff Lund to spare Hayesville in exchange for regular sacrifices. With a body count unfathomable and a lack of care for his fellow killers, Willis spends the film having a group of teenagers picked off one by one before bisecting Lund herself for failing him.
- False Witness:
- Pendleton Snipe is a mutant from Cursed Earth who managed to get inside Mega-City One. Initially suffering because of bigotry, Snipe decided to use this for his own benefit, changing his appearance and taking the name of Dr. Galen Filth, after which he created a program "Filthy Language", where he constantly blamed the unregistered people and Judges for all the problems within Mega-City One, causing riots and civil unrest. To get himself in the good graces of the elites, Snipe kidnapped dozens of mutant children from his hometown and put them in his modified Resyk chamber, where they were dissolved and their genes were absorbed by the elites to prolong their lives.
- Shannon McShannon is Dr. Filth's protege and the head of the program "Straight Shooting' with Shannon", where she spread bigotry and hatred across the population of Mega-City One, causing many people to gather and start attacking unregistered people and the Judges. Assisting Dr. Filth in his kidnappings of mutant children, Shannon also regularly injected herself with the genes of the children, as soon as they dissolved, to keep a healthy appearance. After discovering Dr. Filth's mutant origin, Shannon has him killed and framed Mathias Lincoln, leading to civil unrest within Mega-City One.
- StarCraft II: Devils' Due, by Christie Golden: Ezekiel Daun, while a relatively minor character, is utterly monstrous. Daun is a sadistic mercenary who, unless his clients specify otherwise, will torture his victims to draw out their death, and makes it theatrical by terrifying them and using psychological warfare before he moves in for the kill. At one point, Daun flays a woman alive even though there is no bounty on her, forcing her husband to watch the entire time before moving on to him. In another instance, Daun removes a victim's fingers one by one. He also records all of his deaths as holograms, both to watch in his spare time for the memories and to show his future victims to terrify them even more.
- Doom Runners: Dr. Kao, a former ally of the rebellion formed against the evil corporations who ruined the Earth, turned against his colleagues when he deemed their methods too soft. Dr. Kao now rules as tinpot dictator over the last remnants of humanity in a place called Aftertime, subjecting any dissidents to his regime—often alongside their innocent families—to a mind-wipe procedure, completely destroying the people they used to be. Dr. Kao has stolen the minds of so many people that an entire community has formed consisting of people with no conception of the world around them. Dr. Kao has no compunction subjecting his own minions to the procedure, and after having forced an ally of the heroes to act as The Mole under the threat of her brother's mind, gleefully subjects her brother to the procedure anyway.
- The Last Days of Pompeii (1984 miniseries): Arbaces, the power-hungry priest of Isis, seeks to place himself as the most powerful man in Pompeii by framing the Christians and helping to initiate their purges and executions. Despising the good-hearted Gaius for having the heart of Ione, the ward he lusts over, Arbaces murders Ione's brother for uncovering his schemes and frames Gaius to have him executed among many other Christians and claim Ione for his own.
- Season 5: The Beast of Gévaudan
, Sebastien Valet, is history's most famous and vicious werewolf. In the sixteenth century, he was credited with killing 112 people, but it was claimed to be closer to 500, including children. His true identity—along with the corpses of his victims in a hidden stash—was discovered by his sister Marie-Jeanne Valet. When Marie opposed him, Sebastian spends three years trying to kill her. Throughout all this, he claimed to be proud of his crimes, and being remembered for his horrors. In the present day, the Beast is resurrected by the Dread Doctors, but doesn't remember his former identity. As he pieces his memory together, he goes on a new killing spree. Fully resurrected, he is content with erasing his vessel, Mason Hewitt, and kills the Dread Doctors, dismissing his loyal friend, Marcel, who did so much to bring him back, even expressing annoyance at Scott and Liam for being heroic werewolves as he prepares to pick off where he left off. A vicious egomaniac obsessed with having a murderous legacy, Sebastian is seen as a Beast throughout history, for both being a literal monster, and the Beast representing his true personality.
- Season 6A: "Garrett Douglas" is the assumed identity of Der Soldat, a werewolf hybrid with a löwensmensch (werelion), who was part of Ahnenerbe. In World War II, Douglas used the Nazi Party as for his own ends and he learned of the Ghost Riders, which he sought to use to create an army under his control. Killing another officer who mocked his plans and forcing one of his men to open the rift into the Riders' world, they end up wiping out Douglas's soldiers. After being kept in suspended animation for decades, Douglas broke free and assumed the identity of a harmless high school teacher, secretly killing people and eating the pineal gland of their brains. When the Wild Hunt arrive in Beacon Hills, Douglas helps Scott's pack capture one of the riders, before killing said rider, devouring its pineal gland and taking its powers. With these powers, Douglas begins reaping souls, and seeks to brainwash Parish to use his Hell Hound powers to enter the Riders' world and amass an army from the souls the Riders claimed. Douglas keeps Corey locked up with wires and electronics hooked into his body, using his powers to merge the Riders' world with Earth to bring about his army.
- Season 6B: The Anuk-Ite is a malevolent entity that delights in spreading fear through infestations, turning it to murderous desire as communities tear themselves apart. Imprisoned in the Wild Hunt, when it escapes, the Anuk-Ite first drives the head doctor of Eichen House to kill his patients. The Anuk-Ite plays up the growing fear among Beacon Hills human population, making the genocidal war Gerard is starting even worse to draw power from it, directly influencing most of his soldiers. It uses Miss Monroe's cruel tests of flushing out supernaturals, to find the one who hosts its other half, killing those it can't use; its other half is in a young werewolf named Quinn whose pack it kills, before having Aaron kill Quinn and becoming full once again, whereupon it turns those who cross its path into statues, before making a deal with Gerard to battle Scott. In the finale, the Anuk-Ite picks off Scott's allies, using hallucinations and their emotions—particularly of loved ones—against them, and it's revealed the people turned to statues are still alive within them. During its final confrontation with Scott, the Anuk-Ite mocks Scott with Alison's death.
- It (2017)'s unused drafts both have the titular, child eating, Ancient Evil known as IT or Pennywise the Clown:
- 2014 draft
: IT, aka Pennywise the Clown, is the eldritch terror that has been devouring the lives of children and manipulating calamity in Derry for centuries. Among many other incidents, Pennywise once manipulated a terrifyingly massacre at the Black Spot bar in the early 1900s, whipping up a racist mob into burning dozens of innocent black people alive while Pennywise gleefully picked off survivors who fled to the canal. Pennywise remains as vile as his other adaptations, influencing massacres and twisting minds while popping up behind pianos and on TVs, and gleefully taunts young Bill on how much he enjoyed chewing up the muscles of Bill's little brother Georgie.
- 2015 draft
: Pennywise, as sadistic as usual, has haunted Derry since its discovery. Feasting on the pilgrims' children, Pennywise struck a deal with the town leader's wife one night, promising to kill her and everybody in town unless she allowed him to devour her daughter, satisfied knowing that he's broken her spirit. Responsible for a series of catastrophes and disappearances throughout the centuries, Pennywise was also responsible for corrupting Beverly's father Alvin as a teenager, having spared him so that he can eventually molest his future daughter. Pennywise also collects the trinkets of his victims, keeping a large pile of souvenirs in his lair. Corrupting Travis Bowers into murdering his father, Pennywise attempts to have him killed for failing to stop the Losers.
- 2014 draft
- Ma'lash is the brutal leader of the Tal'darim and one of Amon's most loyal servants. Ma'lash willingly assists Amon in his attempt to cleanse all "lesser" life forms in the entire universe. When Ma'lash discovers that this includes his own people, he still goes along with Amon's plans, manipulating them with false promises of ascension in the process. When one of Ma'lash's underlings discovers his treachery and challenges him to a duel, Ma'lash spends long hours destroying his mind and body after defeating him instead of killing him quickly, a fate he has condemned many of his other fallen opponents to. Ma'lash also sends his forces to raid Daelaam colony worlds and kidnap people from them, so that he could hand them over to Narud`s laboratories to be subjected to deranged experiments where most of them die. Willing to sacrifice his own people for personal gain, Ma'lash stands out as a vile individual even by the standards of the Tal'darim.
- Argai: The Prophecy: Dark Queen Orial is a serpentine sorceress whose ultimate goal is to one day reign in Hell as the bride of Lucifer. Having made a Deal with the Devil for eternal life, Orial maintains her youth by regularly placing young maidens in magical comas, with one of her victims being Angele, the fiancée of Prince Argaï. Originally a marauding medieval warlord, Orial eventually conquered the world in a bloody campaign that killed a tenth of the population of the Earth, which she then turned into a dystopic Police State in which anyone who steps out of line is either executed or condemned to a Hellhole Prison. Orial regularly disposes of her own allies at the slightest provocation, and when she learns that Argaï is destined to slay her, she resorts to increasingly extreme attempts at eliminating him and his allies, like burning entire villages, leveling a city block, and razing all of Chinatown. In the end, when she realizes that she has been beaten with no way out, Orial spitefully tries to blow up the Earth.
Edited by ACW on Mar 7th 2021 at 2:54:37 PM
Asked on ATT
because I had a few edits to Vex's CM entry that I wanted to add and was suggested to run them by the thread. Kinda new to this so I'm just denoting changes with notes:
- Magnificent Bastard: Vex initially comes off as a generic supervillain until his true colors are revealed. Planning to use a machine to throw Craftworld into chaos, Vex kidnaps the residents of Loom and has them work on his machine, while purposely letting Sackboy escape. After accidentally dropping his plansnote in the process and later fighting in an underwhelming manner when encountered, Vex eventually reveals to Sackboy that he dropped them on purpose so that he can get the MacGuffins which power his machine for himself, stealing them all from Sackboynote and engaging him in a much more intense battle. Even after seemingly beingnote defeated, it's revealed that Vex escapednote and activated the Topsy-Turver already, planning to replace the Tree of Imagination with it to become a god. Nearly winning in the end, Vex proves to be the craftiest foe Sackboy's faced yet.
![]()
![]()
wrong thread buddy
BTW, got an EP coming soon, probably at the end of the day. Big thanks to Sky Cat for letting me cover it.
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 7th 2021 at 12:42:48 PM
Huh, I didn't know that was a thing, but it definitely works better. Also for his book example (I struck the Serial Killer pothole), as well as for Daly.
Stan, cut J Schlatt
Alright, at this point I don't think I have much to lose, so I'd like to re-discuss a candidate that was discussed before. I scoured the thread and I HOPE that these arguments haven't been discussed yet; but this is just based on what I was able to find.
I'd like to re-discuss the The Dark Knight Trilogy's version of Dr. Jonathan Crane, a.k.a. the Scarecrow. As most of you probably know, he was disapproved because, in Batman Begins, Scarecrow was under the impression that the League of Shadows were going to hold Gotham for ransom rather than destroy it outright. The novelization version was aware of the League's true intentions, so that fact allowed the novel version to be approved.
The case I'd like to make is that, while his motivation may be more explicitly malicious in the novel, I'd argue that, in this case, the specifics don't really serve as redeeming qualities. Regardless of version, he still planned to unleash his fear toxin on Gotham in order to cause anarchy and chaos, only one version wanted to do it for monetary gain and the other version did it For the Evulz. That said, even in the film, after Crane is informed by Batman what the League's true goals are, he simply doesn't care. His response to finding out that the League plans to destroy Gotham instead of ransom it: ride a horse around attacking people and revel in the chaos. It's clear that, ransom or destruction, Scarecrow just sadistically enjoys tormenting people; he doesn't even seek shelter or an escape when he learns of the League's intentions; he rides out into the anarchy to revel in it. I also would like to draw comparisons to Syndrome, and how we formerly made a distinction between the film and IDW Comic adaptation; I feel this is a similar case, where the difference between the two versions is minimal enough that it doesn't impact his heinousness, at least not to the point of disqualification.
For the sake of argument, even if his motivation in Batman Begins did make him less heinous, I feel that he more than made up for it with his actions in the later films, including becoming a drug dealer who laces his drugs with his toxin, and, most infamously, his role in the Kangaroo Court of The Dark Knight Rises, specifically him being responsible for the "Death or Exile" events that sent dozens of police officers and city officials to their deaths.
I want to stress that I don't with to cause yet more controversy. I just truly believe that the difference between the two approved versions is minimal, and that any dips in heinous acts are more than made up for later on in continuity.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereI considered the same thing that whether just ransoming the city or it being destroyed by his toxin, Crane didn’t care. I think Scarecrow does enough to stand on his own certainly, but I’m not gonna make a decision on that now. I’m gonna let a few more people weigh in first.
I’m a little worried about the Former Former CM s page since it might open the floodgates to re-examining all kinds of characters that were once cut whether or not they should be reinstated. I’ll leave that to the thread to decide though.
Yeah I'm open to reviewing the Nolan Scarecrow. But I'll wait to hear the opinions of people who've seen it all more recently before I commit either way.
Okay it looks like Stanley is a keeper.
So following on here is my second and last Midsomer Murders Candidate (as well as baring some presently uncovered niche candidate, probably the last candidate in general). Now myself and Mir are overall less sure about him making it compared to Stanley, but it still feels worth bringing them up.
So from season 9’s “The House in The Woods” I give you Charlie Magwood.
Who Is he:
A native to East London, Charlie was evacuated to Midsomer Newton during the blitz along with his identical twin brother Jack. Together they stayed with a loving couple the Barretts. Jack who always was the more charming and academically gifted grew to love the country, whilst Charlie hated it missing the streets of London and was only too happy to return when the war ended.
However, unlike his caring and loyal brother, beneath his cheerful cockney appearance Charlie grew up to be a thuggish crook who only cared about himself.
What Does He Do:
Eighteen years before the events of the episode, needing money quickly Charlie robbed a jewellery shop in Covent Garden. When trying to escape he was confronted by PC Colin Armstrong, so Charlie shot him dead on spot.
Escaping to his brother, Charlie played on Jack’s misplaced sympathies to get him to agree to help him. Having kept in contact with the Barretts, to the point that having no children of their own they had left him their house in their will knowing how much he loved the place, Jack travelled to Midsomer and stashed Charlies pistol in their chimney figuring no one would look there.
However, to save himself Charlie framed Jack for the robbery leading to his arrest, with Jack refusing to name his brother again out of loyalty to his sibling (still believing Charlie’s story the death had been an accident and having no idea his brother had framed him). He was thus sentenced to life in prison.
The shock of this was too much for the Barretts with them both dying of depression within a year of his sentencing.
In the present, now an old man and needing money Charlie suddenly remembered the house that Jack owned and figuring it must be worth a decent amount, he forged Jack’s signature on a document giving him the power of attorney and tried to set the place up for a quick sale with local real estate agent Harriet Davis. Hoping to sell it off whilst Jack was still in prison and powerless to do anything about. Jack having managed to work his sentence down through good behaviour was presently in an open prison due to be released in a few months.
Thankfully Harriet was a crook running her own scam with a local Crooked Contractor and thus dragged out the sale. Meanwhile, one of Jack’s childhood friends from Midsomer was able to tell him what his brother was up to during a visitation. Unable to cope with his brother selling his beloved home. Jack broke out of prison and travelled to Midsomer hoping to stop him.
Charlie likewise was also in Midsomer trying to find out why the sale was stalling. Discovering that his brother was also in the area and had been spending a lot of time in his house, Charlie devised a wicked plan to get rid of him. One evening when the young couple were visiting the Barrett property, taking some wire from the house’s Piano he waited until Caroline Cave went back to the car.
Then whilst she relaxed listening the radio waiting for her husband, he snuck in behind her and garrotted her to death.
He then waited until her husband Peter returned, due to the dark and her facing away from him Peter not immediately noticing his wife was dead, and strangled him in the same manner. Abounding the bodies, Charlie figured that as his brother had been the one visiting the house where they were nearby and where the wire had come from, he would once again get the blame and be put away for the rest of his life (both murders were really unnecessary as the police were already looking for his brother for breaking out of prison, and he could have just told them where he was).
Continuing to stay at the local hotel Charlie kept up the nice guy act, even talking to Inspector Barnaby a few times, when questioned about selling his brother’s house he lied that Jack had given him the power to sell it so he would have some money when his sentence came to an end.
However, Charlie then discovered Harriet’s scam. Enraged he lured her to the Barrett house, then that night set off his hotel’s fire alarm to distract the police officers Inspector Barnaby had watching him. Slipping away in the confusion he garrotted Harriet to death with piano wire then came back claiming to have been out for a walk during the incident, figuring her death would also be blamed on Jack, unaware he was in police custody at the time.
Unfortunately despite figuring out the truth and finding the gun proving Charlie was the real murderer, Inspector Barnaby still couldn’t get Jack to realise the sort of man his brother really was and Charlie likewise went to ground.
As such he decided to opt for a risky gambit. Whilst supposedly driving Jack back to prison, Inspector Barnaby offered to let Jack take one last look at the Barrett place which he happily accepted. Whilst Jack happily walked around the old building reminiscing about all his fond memories, Charlie who had been hiding in the area snuck up upon him and using the piano wire attempted to garrotte him planning to simply get rid of him once and for all.
However, Inspector Barnaby and his men burst in and managed to drag them apart in time. Snarling Charlie yelled out as he was being dragged away that whilst they may have saved Jack and ensured a good man was now free, he’d still have to live for him for the rest of his life.
Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:
Nothing really. Charlie certainly presents himself as a charming fella, but it’s made clear his charm is utterly a front and his real self is a thuggish, callous and utterly greedy man.
Whilst Jack loves Charlie and even feels sorry for him, believing that he got all the advantages and Charlie got the raw deal, to the point that even up till the end he’s deluded into thinking his brother is simply misunderstood and unlucky. It’s made clear Charlie has no care for his brother, having been envious of him his whole life and abusing him for about as long.
It’s implied that Charlie and Jack’s family weren’t exactly the best or their activities completely legal. But there is no suggestion Charlie was ever abused, likewise Jack turned out a decent man despite having it harder than his brother, having to give up his opportunities and education to run the family fruit stall whilst Charlie lived up the high life.
It’s initially suggested that Charlie did the robbery because the stand wasn’t making enough money to support their family. However, it’s revealed this is a lie and the real reason he need the money, was to enable his lifestyle Charlie had foolishly borrowed money from local gangsters who were now wanting to be paid back.
Charlie does mention missing his parents whilst being evacuated to Midsomer, however, apart from a brief line he never mentions them, their relationship is never expanded on and its implied that he was really missing being in London and disliked Midsomer due to Jack thriving here. Likewise it only comes up when he’s doing his nice guy act to Inspector Barnaby, so it’s unclear if it was even true.
Heinous Standard:
Okay I already went into this with Stanley. Four murders is significantly beyond what the majority of killers accomplish in this show. Charlie is also technically responsible for Barrett’s dying, but as that was an unintended side effect I’m not sure if he really should be held responsible for that.
Now Charlie doesn’t quite have the same brutal deaths that Stanley did (although granting garrotting people to death is still a pretty brutal, drawn out and painful way to go with us getting to watch his victims futilely struggling in agony for several minutes before dying), however, what I think makes Charlie stand out is sheer abuse of his brother, murder and attempting to frame innocent people are quite common in this show, abuse meanwhile is a different kettle of fish.
Whilst the show is no stranger to bad relationships between families and couples it providing the red herring motive for just about every episode (and even then it’s usually mutually bad for all parties) outright abusive relationships are quite rare, and what Charlie does to Jack is uniquely horrible with him going out of his way to ruin his brother’s life and then simply end it.
This coupled with simply how callous and pointless the Cave couple’s murder was, I feel is enough to push him over the line.
Conclusion:
As I said I’m less confident than with Stanley, but Charlie is a thuggish, selfish career criminal who has abuses his loving brother and kills a number of people out of utterly selfish motives. As such I’m leaning to him also being a keep.
Still what do you think?
Edited by MGD107 on Mar 7th 2021 at 2:48:57 AM
@Powermaster, @Library I wasn’t sure it was a joke.
What I should specify with Crane is that whether or not be learned ransoming the city wasn't the actual plan, he still didn’t care because he still reveled in the chaos either way.
I’m also wondering about whether or not we split the film Joker examples up if Scarecrow is approved, but again I’ll wait.
Also, both the novel and video game versions count right now and he’s not really that different from either. That said, I’ve also seen the video game one in action though having not read the novel one.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 7th 2021 at 2:53:45 AM
No to Charlie and I’m not loving the “they have one more murder than is typical” being used to set them above the HS. It feels like we’re veering a bit from the actual trope to include villains that are just slightly worse than average. Is anyone else familiar with this work? From the looks of the body counts on the keepers we’ve got they’re looking a little sketchy and I really don’t see placements on its list as stable.
My thing with Crane... he just kinda throws in with people worse than him. Yes he’s a greedy prick but Ra’s does so much more to destroy Gotham, so does the Joker, so do Talia and Bane and his Kangaroo Court is just a sliver of their destructive plan, while he sure as hell wasn’t in on the “bomb Gotham” bit. If he ever had a more direct role I could see it but as is, I think we’re good with just the novel version.
43: Its not "One more murder than typical", killers in this show kill everything from one person to three on average. As I said a very small number of over a hundred killers happen to kill four people, and of them the ones who happen to have extra and unusual crimes get proposed because they stand out.
Which of the present keepers do you have an issue with?
Agnes - Brutally burns four people alive all out of an obsession with a perfect death.
Patricia - Horrifically subjects people to drawn out tortures (including a frail elderly woman) before killing them.
Sir Michael - The most prolific rapist in the entire show (of which their are barely half a dozen), who does so to his own family.
Orchard - Vicious sadistic fanatic who subjects people to gruesome deaths, with the heavy implication he'd never stop killing.
Hayley - Has the highest confirmed body count in the entire show and by far the highest attempted body count of any killer.
Hendred - A literal war criminal (the only one in the show).
And I've already gone over Stanley.
I can understand it seeming to blend together having never seen the show, but everyone presently voted up stands out.
Edited by MGD107 on Mar 7th 2021 at 3:20:35 AM

Cut Jschlatt
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff