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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250551: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:28:52 PM

@Wat Haven't read Cat-Ra yet (it's on my to-read list) but it sounds much more conducive for a CM.

My cat's tag on my tumblr, i think we need it

Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:29:23 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#250553: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:34:17 PM

@nwotyzal: Yeah, sorry about that.

@43110: I wish for that too.

I don't wish to dogpile on this further, but I feel one more thing needs to be said directly. On fanfiction sites, authors have the ability to edit stories and I've got a terrible feeling that the author might abuse this system to try to get their story back on this trope. In case this happens, I am strongly against letting it back on; Again, because it's a clear case of fishing for candidates and because it just doesn't feel right to let something like this slide scot-free. I've also shared this concern with 43110 during out private discussion and he agreed with me. So as future reference, don't let this work back on the trope, regardless of how hard the author tries to revise it to fit it back in.

Edited by DrUnknown on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:36:07 PM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250554: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:35:18 PM

So, who do you have in mind for that fic? Is it the show's canon CM?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250555: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:35:24 PM

[up][up] The prospect of the gratuitous stuff being edited away is a genuine concern - is it worth the NA list?

[up] I assume you're talking to Wat? [lol]

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:37:08 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250556: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:35:47 PM

I'm with you there, we're not letting this get weaselled away from.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250557: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:37:06 PM

[up][up] I can see where you're coming from. My only real concern is that it might be seen as jumping the gun.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:38:14 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#250558: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:37:37 PM

Okay, cut that gross fanfic examples, for another question, does anyone thinks it is worth the effort to recheck Herr Starr from Preacher to see if he counts, by the end of the comic he full on abandoned his WIE aspect, while he had comedic aspects, when he is presented as a threat and does evil shit he's treated seriosly, his "tragic backstory" is treated with as usual "reason for how he turned out" as Garth Ennis does with nearly all his villains, and he did tried to cause apocolypse, from what i remember.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250559: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:39:04 PM

[up] If that's the case, he might be worth looking at.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250560: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:39:17 PM

No... what Starr goes through would drive anyone nuts and never does he do anything to mitigate from the fact that what really drove him off the edge with the world was watching a little girl get shot to death.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250561: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:39:37 PM

[up][up][up] In general, it's really hard for a character to progress to this unless there's heavy textual evidence they've thrown away all their redeeming qualities. Unless we've got an equivalent of Griffith literally saying "yes, I want everyone who I claim to care about to be eaten alive by demons for my own personal gain", he probably can't

[nja][up] thanks for the explanation

Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:40:07 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#250562: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:41:02 PM

Wait, I’m lost here: are we cutting any C Ms from troper works or only the ones from shock content with no plot that were written with the sole purpose of having a CM?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250563: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:41:47 PM

[up] That second one - it's one specific fic we're scrapping.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:41:57 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250564: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:42:22 PM

The Helltaker fic is being cut because it was an instance of there being deliberate attempt of writing the fic around a CM rather than writing a story with a CM in it. It also had objectionable content.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250565: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:42:26 PM

Just to head this one off, before Starr loses it he: gets his head carved in followed by jokes about how it makes his bald dome look like a dick, gets raped, has his genitals mutilated, his leg ripped off and is constantly made an ass of in the darkest of comedies and then he goes "Fuck it all" I'm not seeing it.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250566: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:42:27 PM

We're cutting some characters because, under our current rules, what they're from is too shlocky

Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#250567: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:43:56 PM

Alright I see. Thanks for clarifying.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#250568: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:44:02 PM

@Imperial Majesty XO

The character I have in mind is not Horde Prime but a parasytic entity who uses the fake name Aroda (not be confused with Adora). It corrupts people and turns them evil to serve its purposes and wishes to destroy all of reality.

However, I won't spoil any more info. Instead I will leave it for the proposal.

Edited by WatTambor on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:44:48 PM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#250569: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:44:14 PM

Sure, add the fic to the NA list.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:52:59 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250570: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:44:36 PM

@Looper: The original post that started this. It's rather gross fair warning.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:45:04 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#250572: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:46:15 PM

never does he do anything to mitigate from the fact that what really drove him off the edge with the world was watching a little girl get shot to death.

Didn't he said that he didn't cared about the girl and more cared about the chaos this action entails? Here is the page, where he discussed what he really thought after seeing the little girl die.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250573: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:46:55 PM

Why are you not considering Horde Prime, just wondering?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:48:34 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250574: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:49:43 PM

[up]EDIT: I thought you were talking about Herr Starr before the edit

Honestly, I’m really stressed right now, I’m just gonna call it a day.

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:52:02 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#250575: Mar 4th 2021 at 12:51:55 PM

Yeah, I would also agree to Never Again List the fic.


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