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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250501: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:34:32 AM

I would just go and just ban any other entries from that particular fic if it is apparent that they care more about background events that are written to be as revolting as possible.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250502: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:35:48 AM

[up] Agreed. Like, there was already a degree of pushiness from them about getting candidates up that I let slide because I didn't think it went that deep, but combined with this I think it's fair to put up a moratorium.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250504: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:39:28 AM

I'm just kinda gonna pose it as a general question for the thread: does this feel like an appropriate work to be looking for CMs in at all? If we're fine with what's listed that's cool but we've cut on poor taste before even if it's not directly the candidate (i.e.: Paul Bernando for being from a movie that humanized Karla Homolka) so there is a precedent to talk about here.

[down] That's not our decision. Unknown and I gave our thoughts on the appropriate thread but they seem to be leaning keep.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:40:47 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#250505: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:40:03 AM

Yeah, I was sketchy on her and, in hindsight, should not have voted yes without a look into it. Cut her.

[up] I actually agree- if the fic is this graphic and tasteless, in addition to that one guy reappearing and having additional crimes, should we not just chop the whole fic from the list?

Edited by MasterN on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:40:29 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250506: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:40:45 AM

I wonder if this Fic's graphic content has meant it was way surppased our standards to approving things. The amount of rape and torture added to Whats a light hearted Johnny bravo style harem genre game seems in bad taste...

That I wonder if it's pushed it way out of norm for approving people

Edit : [nja] by 43110.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:41:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250507: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:41:02 AM

[up][up][up] From the looks of it, the fic fails at that. Ultimately, I'd wager that the fic isn't conductive to having any examples.

Edited by AustinDR on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:42:27 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#250508: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:41:38 AM

Cut Shukra.

There is a way to pull of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. That is not how you do it. At all.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:43:28 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250509: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:42:51 AM

I wouldn’t look at the fic for as long as we live

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:43:52 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#250510: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:44:13 AM

[tdown] Jill, Shukra and honestly axe the rest of the Infernal Tales guys too

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#250511: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:44:35 AM

I don't know what to say. Just cut Shukra... Please.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250512: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:44:39 AM

Speaking of cutting, has a decision been made on Tsugumomo?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250513: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:45:44 AM

[up][up][up]You know what I agree. The amount of graphic stuff here for no reason has way surpassed what we normally let in. I motion to cut the whole three too.

[up]Their checking the official versions to see of their any better.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:46:14 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250514: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:45:51 AM

[up][up]I say cut it until the one guy talks about the Bleached Underpants version that apparently exists.

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:46:03 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#250515: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:45:53 AM

I'm gonna back the nuclear option and say cut every candidate from Infernal Tales.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#250516: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:46:02 AM

@43: I didn’t mean cutting the fic page itself- that’s not what we do here- but cutting the CM characters we currently have listed on the basis that the fic itself is no longer conductive of having one.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250517: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:46:56 AM

Ah, gotcha, now that I will support in our jurisdiction!

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#250518: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:47:10 AM

Cut the character and let us never speak of this fic again. I've always been very leery of Demon Beast's fic because of how often they bring it up here which feels like they are fishing for a character to count.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#250519: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:47:27 AM

You know what? I agree, cut Shukra and the other guys.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 4th 2021 at 4:47:48 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#250520: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:48:08 AM

While I am usually open to discourse, in this specific case, I'm thoroughly happy to see that everyone is in favor of cutting it.

I want to formally apologize for not bringing up this concern earlier. I had never encountered this type of situation before and wasn't sure if it was worth bringing up. This underestimation allowed this kind of entry to go up for as long as it did and I feel that I had a major role to play in that. Thus, I am sorry that I didn't bring this to the thread sooner and I will keep this precedent in mind for any future candidates. I also apologize for not bringing this up in the original effort post; it was definitely something that needed to be highlighted further and my failure to do so is something that I regret.

As a person who has read the fanfic, I throw in my full support of axing this work completely from the trope. Not only because of how pushy it is to get candidates through here, but I also should mention that in the latest chapter, there is a brief scene where an adult touches the breast of a prebuscent girl. Thankfully, it's not as graphic as the scene I mentioned previously, but it's just plain disgusting. This was the final straw fin my mind that this work is something I cannot approve of.

There's just all sorts of disgusting stuff that goes on in the fanfic like children getting mutilated, enslaved, or cannibalized on, women get raped, and all sorts of other horrors I don't even want to elaborate upon. So, yeah, nuke this work off of this trope.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250521: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:51:01 AM

Don't apologize Unknown, it's not always easy especially when the author is someone we personally speak to here on the thread. What you did was right and honourable when you thought about it to yourself and felt enough was enough. This was a grotesque use of the trope and full, full credit to you for bringing up the red flags! Seriously man, you were nothing but helpful here!

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#250522: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:51:38 AM

Cut the other guys, put 'em in a box to a distant island, nuke said island, douse the remains in flames, and then nuke it again for good measure.

And then see a doctor because you just set foot onto a radioactive island.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:56:14 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#250523: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:51:39 AM

Oh, there's more than one? Pour on the gas, light 'em up, and let it burn.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250524: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:52:14 AM

@Dr Unknown nothing you did was wrong. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Now if you excuse me, I need to seek... really just about every religion out there.

[up]3 more to be exact. I was initially thinking we could keep them since they were made before... that stuff, but considering what’s in the work now, I have no desire to see them stay.

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:56:29 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250525: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:57:06 AM

I just kinda wish... we had some kind of defence mechanism to work more effectively with this stuff. After this and All the Rest and the shlock purges, I wish there was an easier metric to bar works that are clearly just being done to get someone on the trope but as soon as we develop something like the substantial plot rule all of the sudden we seem to get a sudden surge of works that practically say "Oh, minimum plot? No problem, I've got the bare minimum amount of non-CM detail poured in to me so you have to say I'm kosher." I just wish we could get some more good judgement being exercised and not constantly having to come back to this stuff no one wants to spend a day talking about.


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