TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#250476: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:06:58 AM

Yeah, cut, cut, and cut. I've read the sequence, it's disgusting and the idea of a literal youngster getting gang raped being brushed aside because "lul she became a rapist herself and says she's fine with it" is not only in poor taste, but also not something we'd let slide in, say, Criminal Minds which has a plethora of baddies who are horrible abusers and rapists....because they had it done to them. This isn't something you can pull off Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse with lightly, and this isn't a case of that. Burn it down.

  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012): "The Outlaw Armaggon!": Overmind is a malicious AI convinced of his own superiority, who overthrew and killed off most of his factory's crew upon gaining sentience. When reactivated by the bounty hunter Armaggon, Overmind immediately overrides Professor Honeycutt's mind to assume control of his body and attempts to forcibly roboticize the Turtles and their friends. Eventually, Overmind betrays even Armaggon, revealing his plan to use an army of Warbots to wipe out all organic life across the galaxy and pave the way for Overmind's own technological rule, trying to simply kill Honeycutt and the Turtles when they stand in his way.

  • Willy's Wonderland: Jerry Robert Willis was the owner and founder of Willy's Wonderland, using the entertainment center to mask the fact that he was one of the century's most twisted, sadistic serial killers. Working with his depraved staff, Willis would butcher and cannabilize entire families for years, eventually committing suicide in a Satanic ritual that transferred the souls of Willis and his employees into the animatronics populating Willy's Wonderland. Becoming "Willy Weasel", Willis continued to kill children and even slaughter his way through Hayesville's schools and shops before striking a deal with Sheriff Lund to spare Hayesville in exchange for regular sacrifices. With a bodycount unfathomable and a lack of care for his fellow killers, Willis spends the film having a group of teenagers picked off one by one before bisecting Lund herself for failing him.

  • G.I. Joe (2019): Anastasia DeCobray, better known as the Baroness, is a cheerfully destructive Cobra officer with zero allegiance to any ideology except violence itself. Revealed to be the one who suggested the utter decimation of Indianapolis and its population to quell rebellion, the Baroness continues to suggest similarly brutal tactics in the present, threatening to destroy any and every city across America that G.I. Joe crops up in with no care for the bodycount. Commissioning Dr. Mindbender to perform inhumane experiments on reviving dead Cobra troops, the Baroness casually sentences a Cobra guard to be taken apart by Mindbender and shows her further distaste for her own subordinates when she snaps a Cobra operative's neck to use him as a human shield. The Baroness cements herself as the worst the otherwise well-intentioned Cobra has to offer in this continuity, basking in her belief that destroying hope is "beautiful."

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250477: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:08:29 AM

Also I am going to restate my concern about some of these troper works—not commenting on quality, except for this story, which I feel comfortable speaking down of thanks to poor decisions made when writing it—that we've got to veer away from "My story is going to have a Complete Monster and that's going to happen". This did not make a "complex" CM, this was not a good faith attempt to craft a character who happened to meet the trope or anything else kosher: this was offensive. I'm getting pretty tried of the whole Death of the Author thing being abused for people to go "Well would you look at that: I wrote 16 edgelords with just enough variety from each other that you've gotta list them all! What were the odds?" This is getting ridiculous, it's an elephant in the room we keep coming back to and while there's no simple solution I think we can all concur we don't want this thread open to being hypothetically flooded with characters who exist for no reason except to be this trope.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250478: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:13:07 AM

I mean if that fic did go as far as to include that, then yeah, cut it on the grounds of making it a badge of honor.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#250479: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:15:46 AM

Yeah, cut Shukra/Lahamu.... -w-

By the way, was there a reason the comic book Purple Man from Marvel doesn't count for this trope or is it that he wasn't discussed here before?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250480: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:16:14 AM

IIRC cut for a last minute redeeming quality.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250481: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:16:45 AM

He has returned though so he may one day go back up.

Hey he's Jessica's archenemy. Like with bullseye and Norman. He's never going down for good.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:17:47 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#250482: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:17:11 AM

Kill the writeup, Kill the writeup, Smash in its head!

Okay, seriously though, this fic is slowly becoming less of a fun Darker and Edgier fan work and more of a Grimdark fanfic.

[down][down] A Heel Realization.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:18:33 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#250483: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:17:45 AM

Absolutely cut that character. Full stop.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:17:51 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#250484: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:17:47 AM

[up][up][up][up] What was it?

Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:18:01 PM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250485: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:19:08 AM

Pull a TLP and nuke it from orbit.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250486: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:19:49 AM

Discussed this with 43 in P Ms and yeah, cut Shurka (jesus christ...)

[up] He was written as having a Redemption Equals Death, iirc EDIT:[nja]'d by like, a lot

Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:20:26 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#250487: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:20:26 AM

I recall a villainess from and old anime or manga(?) who was deemed to qualify despite being molested by her father and her ultimate comeuppance being getting sent back to him that creeped me out in a similar way to this one. Worth another look?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250488: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:21:41 AM

[up] That was Mothergod, who's a comics villain. We debated that a lot, iirc, but I suppose it might be worth a second look

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250489: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:22:43 AM

If you're thinking of Mothergod—a comic book villain—then no, the sexual abuse by her father isn't on panel and despite the skeevy end to the character it's written with nothing like the detail this got.

[nja]'d by Library but I stand by her inclusion, Scraggle was very thorough when he posted her and we fairly discussed that.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:23:23 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250490: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:24:07 AM

Hey HT you actually upvoted her too

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#250492: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:25:16 AM

I thought that was the right character, but I forgot I voted yes! It seems like this one is a less exploitative situation, just wanted to check. Thanks!

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250493: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:28:07 AM

Found the original EP, and I gotta say it's a little concerning how the sexual assault was pretty much glossed over (it's not even mentioned as a mitigating factor, either as a Freudian Excuse or as a mark against the work). A lesson for the future, I suppose.

[down][down] I wouldn't be opposed. They were very active in getting people on this thread to read the fic a few months back, and it's pretty clear they were hoping to get some characters up. It's certainly not exemplary behavior.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 4th 2021 at 2:31:15 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250494: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:28:36 AM

I remember I abstained on Mothergod for that very reason (especially her fate), but that doesn't seem like what we have.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#250495: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:28:44 AM

So, should we PM Ultimate Demon Beast and give him a warning, or...?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250496: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:29:54 AM

This is why I don't vote on fanfics in general in either thread. Out of taste.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250497: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:31:19 AM

Ultimately, I think there is enough consensus to cut the entry now.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250498: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:31:25 AM

So thanks to Papyru for converting the image. Any votes on this?

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:31:53 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#250499: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:32:00 AM

Not really crazy about the image.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250500: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:32:42 AM

I'm... kinda tempted to auto downvote anything that comes out of this fic going forward as the author's been far too interested in guiding debates even before this went down and now that we know what he's putting in during background segments is this revolting... do we really want to have to keep checking the work to see if he pushed in another overly-detailed sex scene like this to be certain he's not trying to make another "complex" example?


Total posts: 326,048
Top