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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250401: Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:40:38 PM

[up] Well, nobody says you have to be intelligent to qualify. Otherwise we'd have cut Joffrey long ago.

Speaking of, who do you think might be the dumbest CM we've had?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#250402: Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:42:50 PM

[up] It's a pretty big part of book Ramsay's characterization that he's like... the embodiment of Stupid Evil

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250403: Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:50:00 PM

I can concede that having difficulty taking something seriously when there is no practical purpose for the villain to have done anything, to the point a mook calls him out on it and not thinking to propose this one. Oddly he does seem to be a decent general, as all we see of his "war" with the rebels is just him cleaning up and gunning down survivors he's already beaten. It's just that 500 years later he... I guess forgets he had an army... and sends two guys to try to kill Connor before going himself... I guess?

@ Imp, Because that's a question I find a humorous draw to... Otho von Braunschweig has to be up there. The man does not make a single good tactical decision. Runner-ups include the aforementioned Joff, to whom Ramsay is probably a close second, Lord Djibril and Himeji until his fucking last-minute redemption.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:57:04 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250405: Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:16:47 PM

Will it be as good as the Star Wars manhua? That's the real question I need answered.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#250406: Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:27:00 PM

Dumbest CM besides the ones already mentioned would be Athena Stone not so much for her making bad decisions but for the sheer lack of logic in her motivations

[down]Yeah what Beria did was the dictionary definition of shooting yourself in the foot

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:45:49 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250407: Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:42:09 PM

I think you could put in Beria for falling for a trap Kruschev set

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:43:37 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250408: Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:44:54 PM

As much as I love Star Wars, its CM pool is one that I don’t think I’ll ever be brave enough to swim in [lol]

But hey, maybe this means that the franchise can get its 72nd keeper (albeit with 10 being Palpatine and 5 being Tarkin)

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250409: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:03:52 PM

[tup] Gen. Katana, and David Blake

So I was wondering, would mutiliation qualify as standing out? I've been following Dead by Daylight and there are a few more candidates I'm thinking about especially with so many reworks and continuity changes, biggest one is the Trapper's crime of burying many miners got rebooted to that he was actually a victim of the cave-in, his dad was the one who did it and he's not even one of the game killers. Another is a Mad Artist who as far as I can tell is the only one who not just kills but mutiliates the corpses and present as his art and unlike other killers this person is relatively normal with no special powers.. So?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250410: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:13:45 PM

I'll admit that I've wondered if the game's Ghostface could count, but he Crosses the Line Twice constantly and it makes me nervous.

Archie, meanwhile, is entirely offscreen, so I'm pretty sure he'll never count despite the retool, but judging by the Trickster's lore on the wiki, he might count on release.

[down] I'm largely cool with it because, having played the game, the characters' backstories actually tie pretty heavily into their unique abilities, so their villainy isn't entirely offscreen. The Doctor commits Mind Rape via electroshock, the Clown drugs his victims, etc. It's not too much of a stretch in all honesty, but I get the skepticism. Unfortunately, Archie's entirely backstory, so he's a definite no.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 10:18:06 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250411: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:15:45 PM

Tbh I never really liked the candidates from that game. To me it seemed they get quick little backstories but in practice they’re just slight variations on slasher villains there to kill the survivors. Now that you’re mentioning the lore is constantly being rewritten that makes me even more leery, since who’s to say anyone is gonna count next month or whatever when their backstory is changed. I was outvoted when Scraggle and I vouched for cutting all of the work’s keepers but I’ve gotta be approaching any more to come with some healthy skepticism.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250412: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:19:05 PM

To be fair the Doctor's backstory became even worse, as in his crimes was far worse then we first thought, considering he was torturing and experimenting on people already before he got recruited by the CIA. Seriously check his Archive cutscene and tell me that doesn't count as evidence of his crimes?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250414: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:23:31 PM

@ STAR, I did suggest Archer because we do actually see him cause the cave-in the Trappers Archive Cutscene, the supposed main crime Trapper/Evan committed.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250415: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:31:30 PM

Eh, with STAR's words on it I'm cool with the Doc.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250416: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:35:25 PM

Honestly if were looking at who else could qualify, I would narrow it to this game's version of Ghost Face, and Trickster because the rest of the killers are either brainwash into being killers (Spirit, Blight, and Twins), mentally insane, or seriously fall under the standard.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250417: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:48:40 PM

[up] Like I said, Ghostface just makes me nervous because he's constantly played for dark comedy. Some of the time, it isn't even dark - like when he pops open a closet with a survivor inside and strikes a pose like he just won a game of hide and seek.

If you think he could pass, though, be my guest - I wouldn't be against hearing more thoughts, cause I could be overstating the humor.

[down] Plus, it's not even a Ghostface from the movies, so it'd be a whole unique character - they only got the rights to the mask, not any of the characters themselves (in fact, he's technically called Ghost Face with two words, not one), so no Sidney Prescott survivor either.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:32:59 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250418: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:52:04 PM

I’d be interested to see another Ghostface EP. Would be the eighth for the page if approved.

If Kingsley’s approved and goes to the 24 page, he’ll go between Nina and Madsen (unless Madsen goes to an Other section and then he’d be between Nina and Bierko).

[up]Dark comedy is not necessarily a disqualifier. If it’s a version of the franchise one, it would, except I can understand why it would be separated based on that though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:55:24 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250419: Mar 3rd 2021 at 7:59:27 PM

Personally I'm waiting for Ghostface's archive cutscene, because it'd be nice to see more of his M.O.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250420: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:43:28 PM

For Skynet’s entry for the first two films, should we throw in a little blurb about Dark Fate when it sends all the T-800s at once and succeeds in actually killing John?

@STARCRUSHER Well I think same mask means same concept that it’s a Scream-inspired Ghostface alternate spelling or not). We can wait for actual discussion though as Newton said above.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:44:28 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#250421: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:52:01 PM

I don't think this Ghostface thought is considered part of the Scream series, because the developers only manage to get access to the costume. Costume and the Scream series have two different licenses.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250422: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:55:06 PM

[up]STAR brought up good points in PM. We can wait until the actual discussion to determine how semantics play into it though.

Also, wow. Is it just me or have we been moving even faster the last one or two days (at least times we got really slow and then really fast)?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#250423: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:31:56 PM

[lol] Katana and Blake both sound easy, if hilarious, Keepers, great job y'all!

Most stupid CM? Joffrey definitely stands out, and to volunteer one of my own proposals, President Stone is just a straight up dumbass whose hilarious stupidity would quite literally disqualify him from the trope if he wasn't such a sociopathic dick. This is a man who thinks declaring war on the homeless will get him reelected, kills a child thanks to his own negligence while assuming the boy's dad would be totally fine with the death, and ends the movie quite literally tearing apart the very city he plans to continue to be President of—even taking the time to remark in the midst of his rampage, while threatening to crush a bus of children in full view of the populace, that he wants to hurry things along and kill the heroes because "I have an election to win!"

This asshat so dumb that when he's finally beaten, he still insists he's gonna be reelected and demands the heroes be arrested for crossing him. Guy's a lesser-known villain but I literally cannot think of a single baddie who is as useless strategically and common sensically as Stone, and by God if he ain't entertaining for it.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ThePat Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Singularity
#250424: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:33:20 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250425: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:44:52 PM

Hmm...stupidest CM besides the ones already mentioned? That’s a tough one. Well Walder Frey does pretty much alienate everyone around him by executing the Red Wedding (no pun intended) and yet he’s surprised he has very few allies after that (none of them willing).

Anytime the actions of a CM (or sometimes just a villain in general) make no sense, I always pretty much have the perfect answer as to how they’d personally sum it up: "I'm evil. Get it?"

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:45:34 AM


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