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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#250201: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:11:31 PM

I think that's Gideon.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250202: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:12:46 PM

[up][up]That was Gideon Malik.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250203: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:14:30 PM

That it was - I can't find evidence that Nathaniel was definitively discussed, but from what I can gather he was also shot down preemptively for caring for his father. It seems like it was one of those "literally one line disqualifies them" moments.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:17:04 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250204: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:15:50 PM

@Emerald SIGH. Yes he was. It was determined Nathaniel’s throwaway line while using his powers on Deke (after torturing him for information) to knock him out ("That’s for my old man!") was deemed an indication that he cared about his father.

@mir Oh heinousness totally wasn’t an issue. It was just that one line that did him in. He otherwise would’ve been an easy keeper no matter how unremarkable character-wise.

@STAR Yes, that link was to a discussion on Gideon Malick nearly five years ago. Haha. Oh well.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:18:38 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#250205: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:18:11 PM

Got it. Ah, well. Still fucking hate that guy.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:18:19 PM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250207: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:20:10 PM

[up][up]That's totally the right response to have to him. He wasn’t even fun to root against, he was just annoying.

I totally stand by my belief that they wanted Whitehall in that role instead, but Reed Diamond wasn't available to do it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:20:51 PM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250208: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:20:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] Emerald asked a fair question. Besides, missing one throwaway line is understandable; Mr. Blond had more than that and he was up for years.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:21:10 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250209: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:22:47 PM

[up]Oh that wasn’t intended to be criticism Imperial. It was just me giving Emerald more info about it.

I can also understand that for some reason the search function’s gotten kind of unreliable lately too.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#250210: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:22:52 PM

[up][up][up] I would declare S7 as my favorite had Whitehall been the villain.

Nathaniel's actor at least does a good job at scumbag. I remember seeing a comment on his appearance on The Mandalorian that perfectly sums it up: "I know that voice! I hate that voice!"

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:22:59 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250211: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:25:35 PM

[up]I totally forgot he was in The Mandalorian and yeah, someone with a way more interesting onscreen character doing the things Nathaniel did would’ve been amazing, especially if it had been Whitehall.

It goes to show that whether or not a character keeps for this, their villainy can be incredibly ripe while their character itself is still BS.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:28:45 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250212: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:27:56 PM

[up][up] Ah, Mandalorian, that show that revealed that apparently there's a material impervious to lightsabers just bugs mejust bugs mejust bugs me

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250213: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:28:25 PM

So uh Tsugumomo is probably on the way out for failing the P5. (The manga at least. The anime was determined to be okay)

So what do we do with the cm entry (where is it from?).

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250214: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:36:09 PM

I found the original EP (fairly recent one too). It's from the manga and it looks like there's no anime equivalent character, so it might have to go.

[down] P5 discussion starts here. Main issue seems to be a lot of underage sex and sex with underage looking characters that the anime ages up, plus it apparently becomes just straight porn later on.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:43:10 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250215: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:36:22 PM

Where's the P5 discussion? And out of curiosity, what does it have that makes it inappropriate (assuming the P5 aren't being Bluenose Bowdlerizers)?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#250217: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:41:46 PM

Found out.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:42:40 PM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250218: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:42:27 PM

I thought our policy was to keep characters from works that failed P5. Didn't we keep someone from something that was later found to fail it?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250219: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:42:43 PM

Edit: Answered a now deleted question

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:43:44 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250220: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:21:29 PM

From the discussion:

"Given the Tsugumomo manga's increasingly graphic sexualization of underaged and underaged-looking characters, I'm frankly surprised it only has one Devil Head."

Uhh... do we really wanna fight for the character to be kept at that point?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250221: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:24:12 PM

Yeah umh well we do have works with sometimes graphic sex scences. Their usually between well adults....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#250222: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:24:17 PM

[up][up] What's a devil head?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:24:36 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250223: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:25:27 PM

Angel head means keep. Devil head means cut.

It's basically a vote.

Guys go their to that thread to iron out any details.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:25:53 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250224: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:33:33 PM

I'm just gonna leave it at I don't think this is a hill worth dying on to keep.

Dvaderstarlord5 Since: Sep, 2020
#250225: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:40:43 PM

I'll stop now. I got into trying to do it after Mysterio got a quote because then I thought all 5 of the Complete Monster villains can now have one on the main quotes page, but now I realize he has one on the MCU's own page and that is good enough.

Edited by Dvaderstarlord5 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:00:34 AM


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