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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#250176: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:04:16 AM

OK. I think Ma'lash has enough votes so i will do his write-up:

Dvaderstarlord5 Since: Sep, 2020
#250177: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:04:22 AM

As Colonel Phillips's line about him is the page quote for the MCU's Monster page, I went with this one instead though it might be too long: Zola: Schmidt believes he walks in the footsteps of the gods. Only the world itself will satisfy him. Phillips: You do realize that's nuts, don't you? Zola: But the sanity of the plan is of no consequence. Phillips: And why is that? Zola: Because he can do it! Phillips: What's his target? Zola: His target is... everywhere. I understand that most of this further reinforces his A God Am I behavior but the part that makes me feel that it is a Complete Monster quote is because his second in command is saying if you let this guy do it, he will destroy literally anywhere he wants and feel that he has the right to. I also know that it might be a bit long as well. Maybe just get his everywhere line, and Phillips asking would be enough, for a quote. Just decided to reupload this because only one person acknowledged it.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#250178: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:04:53 AM

Personally, considering the bad writing, I'm inclined to take the priest saying that she's "possessed" at face value and say that she's not corrupted.

[up]Could you please work on the formatting so it's not all in one long paragraph?

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:06:14 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250179: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:06:33 AM

[up][up][up]He goes after Nurad right. Since Nurad is Amon's Main enforcer.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250180: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:07:23 AM

Should Ma'lash go after Samir Duran/Emil Narud?

[up][nja]

Also, Amon's entry is 260 words...

Edited by ACW on Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:07:38 PM

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#250181: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:07:58 AM

@miraculous, @ACW

I guess so. Considering that both Amon and Narud are Xel'Naga while Ma'lash is a Protoss, I think it's all the more logical.

Edited by WatTambor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:08:51 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250182: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:10:11 AM

FYI, Wat, when potholing, you don't need the "main/" before the pothole.

[[PsychoSupporter Ma'lash]]=Ma'lash

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#250183: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:14:50 AM

ACW

OK, I will keep that in mind for future write-ups.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250184: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:15:42 AM

@Dvaderstarlord5 You already posted that one.

Please don’t ignore my posts on Ronald and Legarski. I’d like other opinions and feedback please.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:16:16 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#250185: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:17:13 AM

I am still not sure what to think, future.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250186: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:18:50 AM

[up]I saw that you did answer SkyCat and I’m good with what you said. Don’t worry.

I’m just wondering about everyone else though is the thing.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:19:07 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#250187: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:18:54 AM

@Dvader Can you please stop trying to get a Red Skull quote? We don’t need it and nothing will be lost if we don’t

Changing my vote to abstain on both

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250188: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:20:23 AM

[up]Do we already have one? You’d think we would. He was the first keeper in the MCU.

That said, not every keeper has a quote and I don’t think every keeper needs one either.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250189: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:25:17 AM

We do (well, one ABOUT him anyway)...it's the page quote for Marvel Cinematic Universe [lol]

Incidentally, all of the MCU film keepers have character pages except for the worst of them (Ronan; yes, I actually enjoyed Weaving as Skull).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250190: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:29:22 AM

Might be since people don't really like Ronan much. [lol]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250192: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:51:28 AM

Eh, I could go either way on Ronan in all honesty. Personally I enjoyed the Mood Dissonance he created by being a dead serious (if flat) baddie in an otherwise fun movie - it kept it unique, and it meant we took the Guardians seriously when they defeated him.

@Dvader: the problem with Skull quotes is that most of them are pretty much entirely based around his God Complex, not around his monstrous actions. We've already got one quote up as the quote for the whole page, we really don't need to be fishing around the entire movie trying to find another - quite frankly, if that movie had another Skull quote, I'm pretty sure it would've gone up by now.

@future: I don't know the source material incredibly well, but I also know you're usually pretty good about describing situations objectively, so if you think they don't count because of mitigating factors and agency issues respectively, then I'm inclined to take your word on it.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 2:58:24 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#250193: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:55:40 AM

I think it's been talked about enough so I'll try not to go too deep into it but for Ronan: it's just how bloody flat and boring he is to me. Tbh I think he was a bad example of how to do this trope, since having a relationship with his "Father and grandfather" that goes no deeper than just a quick reference for his vengeance just seems to be a quick way for the writers to have gone "Bad guy bad and all the things about him are bad!" He should be a fun hammy villain but for me it just didn't click.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#250194: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:00:02 PM

Yeah. Now Skull, there's a fun hammy villain.

Contrast Ronan to Ego, who's this trope done WELL. Still one of my favorite MCU villains. Kurt Russell does a great job.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#250195: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:01:44 PM

I don’t really mind Ronan. He was just supposed to be the serious stick-in-the-mud villain in that movie and he filled that role fine if you ask me. I can agree though that he most certainly doesn’t come off the best compared to both the film CM s and film MB s in the MCU at all ([nja]especially with his successor Ego as mentioned above).

@STAR Thanks. I appreciate it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:02:33 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#250196: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:04:19 PM

Speaking of MCU Complete Monsters (or not, depending on how one feels about the shows), has anyone done Nathaniel Malick yet? I really fucking hate that guy.

Ronan edges out of being among the franchise's worst villains due to his ham, but his generic-ness drags him back down to just barely above that.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#250197: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:06:17 PM

Think we decided Malick apparently had that weird scence with trying to avenge his father and that he's really not that special heinous standard wise anyway.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#250198: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:06:31 PM

I personally always found Ego to be one of the best written examples of this trope.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#250199: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:08:17 PM

Second point I get, partly why I haven't proposed him already.

I... do not remember any scene about him wanting to avenge his father. Might've missed it, but it feels weird when he almost assuredly had his brother killed during the invasion. Might have to edit the Hate Sink entry.

Still, say no more, I understand.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:08:58 PM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#250200: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:10:20 PM

Edit: Welp, I was straight up wrong, ignore this

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:14:00 PM


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