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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#229301: Sep 17th 2020 at 1:48:11 PM

BTW, since I'm sandboxing the Bond page (to add Lighty's entry), anyone mind if I remove all Big Bad potholes and replace them with something else?

Too bad there's not a Drug Kingpin pothole for Sanchez. Speaking of Sanchez:

  • Pet the Dog: He dotes on his pet iguana. Tellingly, in its debut scene, Sanchez shows his pet and his mistress comparable warmth and affection.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#229302: Sep 17th 2020 at 1:53:58 PM

His debut scene with the mistress is catching her in an affair, having the man's heart carved out to give her and brutally beating her with a stingray tail.

It's Bond, his 'doting' on the iguana is no different than Blofeld with the cat.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#229303: Sep 17th 2020 at 2:01:23 PM

Well then, never mind.

Though my question about removing the Big Bad pothole stays. Come to think of it, we can probably remove Diabolical Mastermind and Corrupt Corporate Executive as well, since those are also fairly prolific.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229306: Sep 17th 2020 at 2:19:37 PM

I'm a huge fan of the Franchise. I'll help you with potholes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#229307: Sep 17th 2020 at 2:32:26 PM

Alright, I'll go through it sometime tomorrow hopefully.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#229308: Sep 17th 2020 at 2:43:22 PM

Yes to Jack.

No to Konev, and switching to a no on Goebbels and Dai Li. I also completely agree with 43's suggestion to EP multiple villains from the same series in order from most to least heinous.

Edited by falcontalons on Sep 17th 2020 at 2:43:53 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#229310: Sep 17th 2020 at 5:55:52 PM

So the only keeper from the HOI mod is Himmler?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#229312: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:59:29 PM

So, here's a keeper from the 2014 Turok series: Lord Fitzwalter.

Who is Lord Fitzwalter?

A British lord, Fitzwalter leads a force to the New World where Turok's people live. It's a world much like our own, except those across the sea in Europe have tamed 'Dragons.' Fitzwalter is introduced attacking a village with his forces, slaughtering those they find and taking the elder to keep "the gold" they keep (which is nonexistent) and ordering thumbscrews brought for some torture.

Turok and another tribesman named Andar see the massacre and torture, Fitzwalter harming the chief more when he can't understand the Manhattan natives' tongue. He then tries to have a young woman named Kita tortured before his daughter Marion intervenes, pointing out that obviously they don't speak the same language and beating them won't get Fitzwalter what he wants. When Turok and companions bright some fight there, Fitzwalter throws the chief to his death off the top of the fort. Marion is taken prisoner when the heroes retreat and Fitzwalter releases his T-rex to slaughter the tribes, including Marion, pointing out "hey, they've probably made her damaged good by now so I can't marry her off."

Things go wrong and Fitzwalter loses most of his men. He takes refuge with them and the native hostages in a cave with the T-rex about. To sate the 'dragon?' He takes a native kid and a puppy, throws the latter to the beach with intent to throw the former after. Turok intervenes, saves the day, kills Fitzwalter's men an then duels him, stabs him and throws him screaming to the t-rex.

Heinousness?

Easily worst with torture, attempted massacre of the tribe, the t-rex use, etc. The series didn't last long, so...

Mitigaing Qualities?

Nothing. Just a cruel fanatic. He care nothing for his daughter, dismissing her as damaged goods who can't be married, and he has plenty others anyways. No care for his men, nothing else.

Conclusion?

Pretty easy yes.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#229313: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:02:28 PM

[tup] for Lord Fitzwalter.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229314: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:03:09 PM

[tup]Fitzwalter

Dinosaurs rock.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#229315: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:28:39 PM

[tup] Fitzwalter. Funny, I'm currently taking a dinosaur studies class in college.

It's Spooky Month!
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#229317: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:34:56 PM

And now...one from Warhammer fantasy. I've got a good few coming up from fantasy and 40K, but this is one of the worst. One of the most dangerous and monstrous warriors of Chaos in either Fantasy or 40K. I give you Be;'akor the First-Damned.

Who is Be'lakor?

Long ago, he was a man of unknown origin. A truly exceptional man of unparalleled savagery and cruelty, he served the Chaos Gods, banding together an iron army that drowned the world in blood. Before the elves could rise up, Be'lakor became a Daemon Prince, the first ever so honored. Be'lakor returned to the mortal realms to slaughter and leading his forces to ravage the world during the First Great War Againt Chaos...however, this led to other Daemon Princes raised. With them fighting among one another, the elves manages to push back Chaos and stem the tide. As punishment for bringing thi, the Chaos Gods stripped Be'lakor of physical form and most notably...

See, the Chaos Gods desire a champion for their great campaigns. One must participate in trials and claim a dark crown plus the blessings of all four. This being is known as the Everchosen. There have been several, but the Everchosen is THE leader of chaos whenever they arise. Be'lakor, for all his arrogance? Was selected as the one who would crown the Everchosen but could never, ever achieve the great honor himself. Be'lakor crowned multiple Everchosens to send them on the way to destroy the world. Once he even tried to find a loophole by possessing the next chosen Everchosen, Khaardun...problem was the body was paralyzed. Be'lakor's rage destroyed it and back to square one. Usually, he manipulated wars to start to manifest in the world, tons of bloodshed and violence. Every time an Everchoen died, Be'lakor was furious because he believed he could have easily won the campaigns himself.

Now, thanks to an Endtimes retcon...Be'lakor is connected close to the final Everchosen, Archaon. Archaon was born of a rape when a Chaos Norscan warrior violated a peasant woman. Turns out? This was Be'lakor possessing a body, as he'd done countless times, having fathered many, many children via possession and violation to create the right pawns. With Arhcaon's armies, Be'lakor leads a massive storm of rage and blood, trying to put his final plan into motion, obliterating the knights of Bretonnia, wiping out the elves to the extent possible...and spitefully sabotaging any attempt at a new world as a haven to cruelly ensure that every living thing in the world cannot escape. His intent? To cause enough death to ascend to the position of the Fifth Chaos God, facing his old enemies the dwarf warrior Gotrek and the Empire warrior Felix. Defeated,Be'lakor is driven back, eventually captured and bound in a magic ruby of the elven queen Alarielle, imprisoned there for all time, until his return for Age of Sigmar.

Heinousness?

Now, Be'lakor i about the most powerful being for a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, and boy does he hit the mark. Be'lakor is indirectly responsible for all the monstrous rampages of the Everchosen. Even before he became a Daemon Prince, he drowned the world in blood to godawful extents. He's a serial rapist, he goes out of his way to sabotage any hope that any living thing might escape the world when Archaon breaks it open and he's manipulated millennia of horrific bloodshed. I've got a good few to propose, but nobody except the Chaos Gods can match Be'lakor for sheer scale of horrific atrocity. Pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

No. Be'lakor was a mortal and his transformation to Daemon Prince has no impact on his personality Be'lakor has no true loyalty to the Chaos gods at all. His goal is to become one of their number, with him giving no damns about anything but his own powers. Be'lakor has zero care for Archaon or any of his children, having initially planned to just consume Archaon's soul for himself and seize the crown of the Everchosen. He just wants the glory of breaking the world open.

Conclusion?

A yes to the First Damned.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#229318: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:38:49 PM

Yes to Fitz and Belakor.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#229319: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:40:46 PM

[tup]Be'lakor

Surprised this dude wasn't proposed before.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#229320: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:44:10 PM

[tup] to Fitzwalker and Bel

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#229322: Sep 17th 2020 at 7:56:46 PM

[tup] for Be'lakor the First Damned.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#229324: Sep 17th 2020 at 8:05:31 PM

[tup] Be'lakor

Ditto as Mir, he looks like such a obvious keep.

[tup] Lord Fitzwalter

Watch me destroying my country

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