During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Btw for csi is Casey, the first cm for Michael Massee.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."BTW, at the bottom of thread of image picking for Devilman page
there is now a voting for an image.
Say, should Jinmen from Cyborg 009 vs. Devilman get his own writeup, or does he not do enough?
Also, if the image for the page isn't Amon, anyone mind adding the 2 Amon images to the main image page?
EDIT: Speaking of Hoyt, a de-potholing, along with another de-potholing:
- Rizzoli & Isles: Charles Hoyt, Jane Rizzoli's Arch-Enemy, was a Serial Killer known as the Surgeon. Preferring to target couples and loving to install fear in his victims, Hoyt would rape his female victims, forcing the male to watch, then kill them both. Hoyt managed to kill three couples as well as a family. Forming an obsession with Jane, Hoyt murdered Alexander Ghent and kidnapped his wife to lure Jane into a trap to kill them both. He used his scalpels to leave permanent scars on Jane's hands. Though captured, Hoyt continued to be a menace through his apprentices. Hoyt would go on to temporarily break out of jail and murder one couple with his first apprentice, John Stark; threaten to rape Maura Isles when she interviewed him while he was in custody; murdered the husband of Emily "Lola" Stern, his second apprentice; had Lola take Jane's brother, Frankie, hostage; and used his third apprentice Rod Mason to kill an inmate to lure Jane to him so he could have one last attempt at killing her before he died of pancreatic cancer. Just before his final attempt on Jane's life, he began to slit Maura's throat just so Jane could watch her best friend die before killing her.
- Roswell: Agent Daniel Pierce, the main villain of season 1, is the head of the FBI Special Unit, a ruthless organization answerable to nobody which is hunting the teenage aliens. He considers membership of the organization to be for life, and when one of his agents tries to leave, he kills him "piece by piece" as an example to the others. He subjects Kathleen Topolsky, the agent he sent undercover at the teens' school, to a brutal debrief that leaves her on the verge of insanity, then locks her away in a mental hospital. When she tries to warn the teens, he takes her back there, then sets fire to it, killing not only her but five innocent patients. When he finally captures the lead alien Max, he subjects what is essentially a normal teenage boy with a few odd abilities to hours of torture about the aliens' plans, origin and technology—none of which he knows anything about. While Pierce tries to portray himself as a Knight Templar protecting humanity from an alien invasion, in fact the alien enemies only exist in his mind and he is pursuing complete innocents who just want to be left alone. When Max escapes, Pierce abandons any pretense of not enjoying his work, making a plan to kill not only the four alien teens but also the three human teens who have befriended them and telling his apparent ally Sheriff Jim Valenti to go in shooting.
Edited by ACW on Mar 5th 2020 at 4:20:43 AM
Is there anyone else for the quote by Uncle Rudi? Quote is here
.
to the Hunters trio.
Say aside from that trio I think that there might be other potential candidates that might also qualify. There's The Colonel whose the leader of the Fourth Reich and is the mastermind behind the entire conflict in the show. There's also Biff Simpson who murders his entire family, even his own children, when one of the holocaust survivors recognized him, and is never shown to have any redeeming qualities. Though since they still alive by the time Season 1 ends, so they'll probably commit more crimes (though like Travis, the Colonel is heinous enough already to be considered).
Speaking of trio, should I put my CSI trio under one entry or should I give them an entry for each of them?
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 5th 2020 at 12:10:22 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffRandom popped into my brain at work today. Just completely out of the blue.
So Destination Zero is the second book in the Final Destination series of books. Like all of the movies, this one centers around a group of survivors narrowly escaping a horrible tragedy after the main character, reporter Patti Fuller, has a premonition that a bomb will explode in the South Hill Metroline subway station. Like in the movies, Patti causes a huge commotion that gets her, her boyfriend, and four other people off the train before it explodes. However, the tragedy occurs regardless. And just like the movies, after the survivors escape Death, the Grim Reaper decides to hunt them all down one-by-one and gruesomely kills most of them through a series of accidents. But I've no intention of talking about Death itself.
I'm gonna talk about the dude who planted the bomb.
Who Is He?
Sean Reilly is a terrorist responsible for the South Hill Metroline bombing, alongside fellow terrorists Dan Hoffman and Leon Khalid.
What Does He Do?
Sean, alongside Dan and Leon, all met up with each other and conspired to bomb the subway train, seeing as they're all fugitives from their home country looking for money. Even though Patti has the premonition about the explosion, she doesn't avert the bombing and it goes off anyway, killing thirty-eight people. A few days later, Sean sends a video to the FBI, demanding that they release all the prisoners from Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib, to pull the troops from Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, and to persuade the Russians to pull out of Chechnya. Finally, he demands for $100 million to be deposited into various offshore bank accounts. The FBI figured out very quickly that their demands for releasing all the prisoners is a hoax, and all Sean and his partners-in-crime want is the money. After a more thorough investigation, the FBI deduces that Sean was the one who made the video, and soon dig up Dan and Leon's identities as well.
Various FBI, ATF, and SWAT officers storm Van Nuys Airport after discovering a possible lead on Sean's location. Sean and his allies discover that they're about to be attacked and fire back at the agents once they storm the hanger they're stowed away in. Dan and Leon are killed very quickly, while Sean flees on a motorcycle. A high-speed chase commences between Sean and ATF agent Jim Castle that spans from the airport all the way onto the highway. While on the highway, Sean pulls out a grenade and plants it onto a tanker truck. The ensuing explosion causes a major pile-up on the road and impairs the visions of the choppers following after him. Eventually, after Sean kills a few more police officers in his way, Jim crashes his bike into Sean's, causing both of them to crash. Albeit wounded, Sean survives the crash, and Jim takes him into custody.
Mitigating Factors?
None. Sean mentions to himself that he plans on escaping to the Eastern Seaboard to regroup with some "friends" of his former cause (Sean used to be part of the IRAX, a terrorist group based out of Ireland). But by "friends," more than likely he was referring to allies who will protect him both from his home country along with law enforcement agents in America. Besides this, nothing else. No loved ones, no family, etc. When Dan and Leon get killed, Sean doesn't react at all. He's just focused on getting the hell outta the hanger before the cops find him.
Heinous Standard Issues?
Okay, yes, hundreds, if not thousands of people die throughout the franchise. But almost every single death caused in this series was orchestrated by Death itself, which is essentially an evil force. There are very few humans antagonists in the series. Ian McKinley from the third movie tries to kill Wendy; Carter Daniels from the fourth movie is revealed to be a neo-nazi who tries to burn a Cross on a black man's lawn; Peter from the fifth movie tries to kill...uhhhhhhh—Molly! Yes, that was her name. And he succeeds in killing an FBI agent. Or ATF agent. Or something.
As for the comics, there aren't human antagonists.
As for the books, Dead Reckoning's main accident involves an underground club collapsing, killing at least thirty-one people. It was caused by an off-duty rookie police officer who ended up damaging the insulation after she shot the lock off the door, starting a fire that resulted in the collapse. She didn't do this on purpose though; it was an accident, and she's imprisoned (and unsurprisingly killed by Death in prison) for doing so. Dead Man's Hand has a thug who beat a child to death. End of the Line has this weird...mob subplot involved, but only two of the gangsters kill a single person onscreen, along with torturing two of the protagonists. Looks Could Kill has a Villain Protagonist who helped Death kill most of the survivors who were ungrateful to her after her face was scarred in an accident. The same book also goes into a character's flashback and talks about how his father raped and impregnated his daughter, murdered his whole family, and turned into a Spree Killer before he was gunned down by the cops (I may do an EP on this guy if there isn't too much Offstage Villainy). And Death of the Senses (which I actually haven't read) features a man who almost became a Serial Killer, up until the protagonist killed him before he could murder his targets. So yeah, surprisingly, Sean has competition.
He still passes though. Sean and his two allies blew up a train that killed almost forty people and injured many others. On top of that, Sean callously blew up a tanker truck that created a huge pile-up, and it's mentioned that other vehicles crashed during the explosion. And during his motorcycle chase, Sean kills at least four police officers when he fires into two police cruisers, so you can chalk being a Cop Killer to his bill too.
Generic Doomsday Villain Issues?
No. I was gonna do an EP on all three villains, but having skimmed through the book, I'm glad I didn't. Dan Hoffman says nothing before he dies, while Leon Khalid says a mere three words. We get almost no personality from either of them. Sean, however, is the one who made the video demand to the FBI. Sean was the one who planted a grenade on the tanker truck and killed multiple officers. And after Sean is taken into custody by Jim, he very smugly tries to pull the Diplomatic Immunity card, bragging that he'll have to be handed over to the Brits. And once he's sentenced, he'll be released. Considering the crimes he committed in the U.K., it's implied that this did not happen, but still. He very easily shows signs of being a sadistic Smug Snake.
Final Verdict?
Keeper.
I'm gonna skim through Looks Could Kill to look up more info on Delber Davis, the man who raped and impregnated his daughter, killed his family, etc.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Well, here's the EP on the Harley Quinn show. I might make another on a character I personally would vote down but I can see why others would upvote her, but for now, here's one who I'm simply unsure of rather than would outright say no to.
What's the work?
Harley Quinn (2019) is an animated series on the DC Universe. In the show, Harley leaves The Joker after finally realizing that he doesn't care about her and tries to make a name for herself as a supervillain on her own merits. It's a very comedic series overall, but it has a good amount of serious moments. Many of which come from the one I'm effort posting.
Who is he? What does he do?
I don't think I need to explain to you guys who The Joker is. As you'd expect, Joker seduced Harley Quinn (in this show, she already had some sanity issues even before meeting Joker) into being his partner in crime, manipulating her to fall into a vat of acid, risking her life and disfiguring her, to prove her love to him. Joker's abuse ranged from minor (deliberately out staging Harley at every turn during heists) to more life threatening abuse, such as tricking Harley into being a suicide bomber (Harley was thinking it was a romantic dance) for the police and Batman to allow him to make his escape.
After abandoning Harley to Batman when he and Harley attacked a yacht party of rich assholes, Joker leaves Harley in prison for a year, not bothering to save her like Harley thought he would. When Harley's best friend, Poison Ivy breaks Harley (along with most of the prisoners) out of prison, Harley confronts Joker for abandoning her. However, Joker gaslights her, making her think he wanted to, but he was too worried that it would endanger Harley's life, naturally making her fall for him again. Later, during Ivy and Riddler's plan to make Harley realize once and for all that the Joker doesn't care about her, Riddler has Harley and Batman both dangled over separate acid pits (it's really margarita mix, but Harley and Joker didn't know that) and the Riddler makes Joker choose who falls. Since Joker wants to be the one to kill Batman, not Riddler, he has Riddler spare Batman and allows Harley to fall to, what they thought, would be her death.
Finally realizing The Joker's true colors (for a while at least. We'll get to that later) Harley changes her outfit, goes to Joker's base, and breaks up with him. Joker takes this well. And by that, I mean he orders his men to brutally beat her out of spite and when Harley refused after Joker offers her one more chance to come back to him, orders his men to kill her. However, Harley manages to defeat Joker's mean with clever usage of explosives and destroy Joker's base, only sparing Joker because she wants him to be alive when he sees her make it as a villain without him. He's pretty light on the villainy for the next few episodes. He does things like have members of the Legion of Doom try to kill Harley and Ivy when Harley refuses to say she's nothing without The Joker, comedically takes a score away from Harley before having her thrown out a train, and some childish insults, but he starts being played much more seriously in episode 9.
After Harley, now a member of the Legion of Doom, causes a request of Joker's to be shut down (he wanted a ton of money to get a skyscraper with his face on it as a TV, and Harley points out he doesn't even have a plan yet) Joker...thanks Harley for pointing it out, claiming he wanted somebody to finally have the guts to speak out against him in the Legion of Doom. He then spends most of the episode acting like a genuinely good friend to Harley, congratulating her on how far she's gotten, letting her have her moments to shine in a heist they do for old time's sake, and when Batman arrives, Joker tells Harley to hop on their escape helicopter rather than leave Harley as bait like she expected. Harley and Joker share a kiss while fleeing...only for it Joker to immediately push her off the helicopter to her death. All of it was part of Joker's petty revenge plan to make Harley fall for hm again only to rub it in her face when he betrays her. (Thankfully, Batman saves her)
It's later revealed that Joker has been working with Scarecrow and Queen of Fables to betray the Legion of Doom and take over Gotham. First, he has Scarecrow bait Poison Ivy into coming to a power plant she intends to destroy, gas her to unconsciousness, and drain Ivy of her pheromones. Scarecrow would then mix them with his fear gas to mutate the trees in Gotham into savage monsters, and have them run rampant across Gotham, slaughtering several innocents. Then, when the Justice League sans Batman arrived (they attacked Harley and crew thinking they were responsible) he has Queen of Fables trap the Justice League in her book and kill Harley and her crew. (Queen of Fables has them sent up a beanstalk to a fairy tale giant's castle, but Kite-Man saves them). Joker also has his newly built tower rise through the Legion of Doom headquarters, destroying it and likely killing all of the Legion members who were there. Eventually, when Ivy takes the combination of her pheromones and Scarecrow's gas to mutate herself into a giant (but still in control) and destroys the tree monsters, Joker fires a harpoon through Ivy's chest just as she and Harley repaired their friendship, seemingly killing her, and laughs at Harley from his lair about it.
After Batman and Harley fail at their plan to work together to take out Joker because of Clayface's stupidity, Joker gases Batman to unconsciousness, and kidnaps Harley's crew, placing a bounty on Harley's head to have her brought to him. For the next week, with no superheroes to stop him, Joker rules Gotham like a tyrant, killing those who don't laugh at his jokes, and torturing Harley's crew and Batman. (Clayface, Sy's and Dr Psycho's torture are Played for Laughs, but King Shark having his teeth painfully pulled out and Batman being beaten bloody and used as cuckoo clock have more of a sinister Black Comedy tone to it).
Joker eventually starts to grow bored, and after killing Scarecrow when he unmasks Batman, Joker finds out that Harley's at his door, threatening to kill herself if Joker doesn't release her crew. Not wanting for Harley to die on her own terms, he complies but out of petty spite, he demands Harley wear her old outfit when she worked for him or else he'll kill her crew. Joker one last time tries to seduce Harley, saying that he realized he needs her as much as she needs him. Harley pretends to buy it, intending to stab Joker when they come close enough together. She does...but Joker does the same thing. They fight, with Joker emerging victorious. Joker then tells her he doesn't plan to kill Harley, but erase her. He has his men drag her to the same vat of acid she jumped into prior to the story, saying that the acid will not only take away her altered appearance, but her memories as Harley Quinn, a Fate Worse than Death for Harley.
Joker has Harley jump into the vat and walks off but thankfully, Poison Ivy comes and saves her (since she's part plant, she just needed to be buried for a little while to heal, Harley's tears serving as the water she needed to recover fully). The two defeat Joker and push him into the vat of acid, but in one last action out of spite, Joker detonates bombs all across Gotham, leveling it to the ground, and nearly causing Ivy and Harley to die from debris (Batman pushes them out of the way and seemingly dies himself. Ten bucks says he'll turn out alive in Season 2 though)
Heinous by the standards of the story?
Easily the most heinous character in the show. From slaughtering thousands of innocents (some of his victims are played for laughs, but several are treated seriously) to his penchant for torture, both emotional and physical, Joker proves to be as bad as we'd expect.
Freudian Excuse? Any other mitigating factors?
Now to talk about arguably the biggest factors against him. The somewhat screwed morality of the heroes, and of course, the comedic aspects of the show. The show's a Black Comedy and, while he does have plenty of moments treated seriously, he likewise has a ton of comedic moments as well. As an example, his crippling of Jim Gordon's wife, or how he bombs a talkshow host are completely played for laughs.
And while the protagonists have standards and are sickened by several of the stuff he does, they prove to have a pretty loose moral code as well. Several atrocities they cause or are involved in aren't treated seriously. Dr Psycho for example deliberately made his son's life a living hell to try and raise him to be a good villain, like murdering every friend he's had or locking him in a basement for days, and when he reveals his motivation for why he did it, it's treated like a heartwarming moment by the characters. Ivy's sapient plant, Frank, murders and eats a little boy who was plant sitting him while Ivy was in prison, and the boy's parents when they investigate. It's purely Played for Laughs with Ivy simply being annoyed rather than disgusted. And when Harley and Crew look over the destroyed Gotham in the Season finale, they talk about how it's a beautiful sight as well as how, with no other major villains around, Harley's the crime queen of Gotham. So yeah, morality is kinda fucked in the show.
Final thoughts?
Leaving it to you guys.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 27th 2020 at 12:23:14 PM
A long time ago I made an EP for Etta Davis, a Serial Killer from Hitman (2016). When I made that post, I believed that she wouldn’t count due to Offstage Villainy. However, when I made me EP for Hitman’s second Serial Killer, another Troper kindly pointed out some flaws in her EP. Thinking about it for a while, I’ve decided to fix my past mistakes a make a new EP for her.
The candidate

Her deeds
Before her retirement Etta was working as a nurse in various British hospitals and retirement homes, where she secretly murdered several of her patients. She would often sabotage staircases and wheelchairs, resulting in fatal “accident”. Other times she used poison, to make it looks like a death by natural cause. After decades of killing, however, her luck ran finally out. When a former member of the Parliament died while being her care, an investigation was launched. Feeling the noose around her neck tightening Etta decided to leave Great Britain and expand her hunting grounds.
Having formerly become pen pal with a retired headmaster in Marrakesh, she travelled to his home and murdered the old men. Shortly afterward a group of soldiers – former pupils who were worried about him being late – arrived at his home. Feigning innocence Etta claimed to be worried about her missing friend and then sweet-talked the soldiers into being her personal escort by pretending to be scared for her own life. She also asked the leader of the group if he liked tea, presumably already planning to poison him later.
Ironically Etta had all reasons to be afraid, because an unknown client hired the ICA to kill her. So 47 arrived in Marrakesh and finally put an end to her murder spree.
Reasons that speak against her being a CM
Etta has no redeeming qualities or loved ones. She had a husband and speaks somewhat fondly of him. However, this is subvert when she talks about how he died falling down a staircase implying that she actually murdered him. She also mentions a women named Gladys, who “tragically” died from a “heart attack” on a flight back to London. Basically she’s a predator who acts all nice and kindly to befriend people and then murders them in cold blood.
The reason why I didn’t considered her a CM in the first place, is that I felt all her crimes happened off-screen. Even the murdered headmaster isn’t show during the mission. All that is shown is his hat, a crowbar and a puddle of blood next to a mop.
This turned out to be a mistake. We actually do see her killing people. During the mission briefing kills someone with poisoned tea and another person by shoving him off a roof. However, these murders aren’t mentioned during the mission itself. Meaning that they could be non-canon and may have only been added to the mission briefing to give the player a glimps into her character and her modus operandi.
Heinous Standards
Just like The Censor, she’s a single person without any notable resources. A stark contrast to the usual targets in Hitman. Many of whom haven’t committed any on-screen murder and those who did usually don’t kill enough people to make it even past the minimum heinous standard.
Theoretically Etta surpasses most of the other targets. However, we don’t get a clear body count. The mission briefing lists around 50 unlawful death inquests. Since she was working at hospitals and retirement homes it’s hard to say how many of these people were killed by her and how many really died of natural causes. The only truly confirmed murders are the headmaster and maybe the two people in the briefing (if they are canon). It’s also strongly implied that she plans to kill the leader of the soldiers and that she has killed the former Member of Parliament, her husband and a women named Gladys.
Should we cut The Censor because Etta surpasses him in heinousness?
The Censor has a confirmed body count of sixteen people and he’s looking for a new victim when 47 kills him.
With Etta we don’t know how many people she has actually killed. But if we take all the unlawful death inquests into account and assume that Etta murdered all or at least most of them, she clearly worse than him.
My Verdict
I’m not sure If I can trust my judgement here. So I’m going to abstain and let you decided.
I also added links the mission briefings of both Etta and The Censor, so that you can take a look for yourselves. And again I would like to apologize for my outburst after my Censor EP.
Etta: [1]
The Censor: [2]

Easy yes to Leitch.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread