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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#204226: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:22:02 AM

[up] again, not to dwell on it too long, but we've definitely approved a few necrophiliac people including one warlock from Skyrim.

[tdown] Tokimassa, as we don't see them/hear them. If we did, we'd get a sense of personality and they'd probably be a keeper.

Gonna delay doing any more EPs for now as I have got a particularly stubborn common cold and that's tiring me out too much. Will keep voting etc and think over my to-do list as I keep reading.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204227: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:22:41 AM

[up][up] Agreed. I mean, if they're ALREADY a CM, sure, the writeup can mention the necrophilia. But by itself? Nah, not really enough.

Edited by ACW on Mar 5th 2020 at 9:39:59 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204228: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:26:17 AM

Sorry for making you guys feel uncomfortable. I was legitametely wondering if that was a heinous thing, but I'll drop. Still I do wonder about the continuity thing if the multiple timelines shift the heinousness in some ways.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#204229: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:28:20 AM

Okay this a weird question. But how many versions of Armin Zola do we have that count?

Edited by Bullman on Mar 5th 2020 at 8:33:10 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204230: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:40:25 AM

[up][up]Nah, it's a fair question, and there may be special cases like that Skyrim dude (Arondil), who's a Necromancer, so it's more than "mere" necrophilia.

As for Zola: Earth-616; Ultimate; X-Men: Chaos Engine Trilogy.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#204231: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:42:11 AM

Switching to abstain on Tokimassa, I was under the impression that Rahgot from Skyrim was only seen through notes and thus we had precedent for putting up a character like this.

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 5th 2020 at 7:44:00 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#204232: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:43:51 AM

[up][up] Wait isn't there one from like a tv movie?

Edit: Looking at the page yeah that Nick Fury one.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 5th 2020 at 8:49:54 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204233: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:46:41 AM

You're right: Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Guess I should add him to those stuck at 4.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#204234: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:50:16 AM

Damn. I thought the letter would be enough to establish personality, but I guess not. Unlike Higashi, who does appear for two scenes. Sheesh, first the White Rabbit and now this- I better propose an actual keeper to make up for this...

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204235: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:54:04 AM

Nah, it's alright. For future reference though, we have to see them, even in flashback (I think? that's the case with Almeida), and even if only for a few seconds.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#204236: Mar 5th 2020 at 7:06:48 AM

[up]Well, now I know why Immortal Angel Newton never proposed him.

I just find it ironic that the actual keeper, Higashi, the single most despicable character in the game, is pretty much unrelated to the plot with the Dark and the Mask and stuff. His abuse of Reina is the only thing tying him to the plot, and if he were removed, Reina would still have a tragic backstory because of the Kamenkai.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204237: Mar 5th 2020 at 7:09:20 AM

So, two weeks since it's come out....Jackie and I have a bit of a teamup here:

What's the work?

Hunters is a recent show from Amazon Prime starring Al Pacino as Meyer Offerman, who befriends the grandson of his deceased friend, a young man named Jonah...a wealthy Jewish philanthropist, Meyer also runs a secret outfit dedicated to hunting down Nazis, new and old. See, many Nazis escaped in WW 2 and went to south America...and also to the US, where there is a secret conspiracy led by a woman known as 'The Colonel'...now, one of the Nazi war criminals is worth the first discussion: Heinz Richter.

who is Richter?

A Concentration camp's guard with a fondness for chess who features in the backstory of Jonah's beloved Safta ("Grandmother") Ruth...Richter's passion for Chess translated to sadistic games...namely with the concentration camp's prisoners. One of them, Markus, was a genius young chess player and Richter wanted to beat him...so Richter set up a special game of human chess.

The prisoners are taken, set up with guards in a specialized area, the ground shifted up to look like a chessboard, and they're made to play. Richter's game? His opponent sends out a 'piece' to take another. When they do take another? The prisoner has to murder the other with a knife. Markus is reduced to tears, forced to play lest he and many others be killed, with a huge array of corpses shown, and this is not the first or the last time Richter enjoys the game. One of the victims is Chava, Ruth's sister, who is 'taken' in one game. The prisoner is shaking and guilt-ridden but each is forced to murder the others. Markus, to Richter's fury, always wins, and Richter forces him to play multiple times.

One day, Markus can't take it anymore and snaps, attacking Richter and carving into his throat with a knife. He's shot dead, but Richter carries a scar on his throat. After the war, Richter escapes and flees to America, joining the Nazi conspirayc to gas tons of people and take over the US...posing as a kindly old toyshop owner....Ruth and Meyer are running the operation against the Nazis, and when discovered, Richter sneaks into her home and shoots her dead before fleeing. Jonah eventually tracks Richter down, but Richter gets the better of him and thinking he's connected to Meyer, tortures him by throwing darts into him, intending on murdering him after interrogation. Jonah gets loose and the two fight, but before Richter can kill Jonah, Meyer intervenes and impales Richter through the back of the neck.

Heinousness?

Hunters has a huge one. Nazis are, of course, Nazis withmany war criminals in the past. One, Holstedder, forced Jews to sing with him and if they crewed up? They were executed on the spot. But of all of them...nobody really matches Richter for this level of fucked up with the chess game. It's the worst of the escaped war criminals, with plenty being shown, and as an old man, Richter remains just as bad, with a sadistic edge. The chess games had an enormous body count, too.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nope. The kind old shop owner is an act he drops the minute he gets the drop on Jonah.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#204238: Mar 5th 2020 at 7:24:51 AM

[tup] to Richter.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204239: Mar 5th 2020 at 7:26:36 AM

Sure to Richter. Played by Kenneth "Heinrich Himmler" Tigar.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#204241: Mar 5th 2020 at 7:55:20 AM

[tup] to Richter.

Now here's my Hunters proposal. Lighty will cover the final candidate after this one.

Who Is she?

Katarina Löw is the Colonel’s head scientist, and an executive at Schidler Corp.

What has she done?

Happily collaborating with the Colonel on her plan to launch the Fourth Reich, Katarina uses Schidler Corp. as a ploy to conduct nasty experiments. Figuring to launch a virus located inside corn syrup, Katarina experiments on countless children in South America, uncaring that it kills them. The virus would kill off all minorities and allow the Nazis to come into power; after all, corn syrup’s located in junk food, and according to Katarina, “minorities will purchase whatever poison we sell them, as long as it’s cheap.”

At the beginning of episode 5, while at a Schidler facility in Paraguay, Katarina looks on at a room full of happy, playful kid with fury, only to turn happy upon seeing an entire room of a dozen deceased children, all of whom were killed by the virus. Later on we see Katarina showing the Colonel pictures of the corn syrup’s effects on children; it ain’t pretty, with the children gaining spots on their skin. Katarina hopes to kill at least 12 million by the end of the month, planning to hit every inner city from New York to Los Angeles.

Once the plan’s been abolished by Meyer’s gang after team member Lonny messes up their machines—the syrup gets overheated and begins overflowing—the syrup begins to leak through the ceiling vents onto Katarina and her Nazis. The syrup burns her face like acid, and once news of the factory exploding is heard by her (Meyer’s gang placed detonations inside the building), Katarina starts shoving her Nazi compatriots out of the way to escape, but she’s too late, as the building explodes, killing everybody inside.

Redeeming Qualities?

Zilch. Just a crazed believer in the Nazi’s dreams of an all-white world.

Heinousness?

While there are other Nazi scientists in this show, Katarina’s the only one whose experiments we see onscreen. The fact that she uses only children as test subjects, and even has a gleeful smile on her face upon seeing a room with all of them dead makes her stand out from the others.

Conclusion

Keeper

It's Spooky Month!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#204243: Mar 5th 2020 at 8:10:24 AM

[tup]Richter and Katarina.

Why so serious?
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#204244: Mar 5th 2020 at 8:12:25 AM

[tup] Richter and Katarina.

I am literally in the theater about to see Sonic the Hedgehog (2020). Just gotta sit through the previews.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#204248: Mar 5th 2020 at 8:24:01 AM

Okay I have a question. What's the difference between Flowers in the Attic (1987) and the book or the made for the film? I have read or seen any of them. I'm just curious why the mom and grandma count in that version, but not the others. Is the 87 film versions worse or something?

Edited by Bullman on Mar 5th 2020 at 10:25:46 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#204249: Mar 5th 2020 at 8:31:24 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Check out my current fanfiction project.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204250: Mar 5th 2020 at 8:33:07 AM

Comments like that aren't welcome. Yes to Katarina

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 5th 2020 at 8:37:33 AM


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