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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#204201: Mar 4th 2020 at 11:51:00 PM

Cut Gundam example.

So, here is my own EP from a pretty neat game I just finished.

What's the work?

Tokyo Dark is a point-and-click visual novel hybrid. It stars Detective Ayami Ito as she tracks down the wicked ghost girl Reina, and discovers her past and the truth of 'The Dark', a strange phenomenon consuming Tokyo.

Now, previously, Eiichi Higashi was brought up and approved. However, he was not the only man responsible for Reina's insanity. There was another.

Who is Tokimassa? What has he done?

Shinji Umezawa, aka Tokimassa, was the leader of the second Kamenkai, a cult based on the first Kamenkai which existed in times of old. The first Kamenkai orchestrated a mass killing in order to sacrifice souls to the Mask, an Artifact of Doom, to seal away the realm of the gods and keep it from being abused by human greed, but also to protect humanity from The Dark, an Eldritch Location that is either the realm of the gods or stands between it and the human realm.

Tokimassa, however, is basically a fictional Japanese Jim Jones. He despised humanity and human society, considering it evil and corrupt, and he desires to reach the realm of the gods himself. So, after somehow getting his greedy mitts on the Mask, Tokimassa sought out people who were down on their luck to brainwash them with his philosophy. Once he got enough followers, they all fled to the infamous Suicide Forest and made a compound there, where he would continue to brainwash them.

The most important member of this cult was Reina, the girl I mentioned earlier. A little tyke at the time, she was raised her whole life by the Kamenkai. They basically emotionally abused her and such. Tokimassa wanted her to become the new bearer of the Mask, and she would do so through a ritual of sorts. This ritual would free the members of the Kamenkai from the corruption of Man, and bring them to the land of gods.

Considering I compared this guy to Jim Jones, you probably know where this is going. The ritual turns out to be a mass Murder-Suicide, and poor Reina has to watch the whole thing, after Tokimassa already carved the symbol of the ritual into her body so he could use her blood. Everyone dies except her, and all their souls are sealed in the Mask. With this, Tokimassa hopes to gain entrance into the realm of the gods, all while humanity died at the hands of the Dark. Reina ends up traumatized, and this is but one of the things that lead to her becoming evil.

Heinousness?

Easily passes it with his ritual. After emotionally abusing his followers for years, he cut Reina to get her blood, and several people die, including Reina's mother. The only real competition is Higachi, but I say they both have unique niches. And Reina, despite being the Big Bad, does not really set the standard- she only has two murders, a couple attempted ones, and psychological torture of Ayami, but Higachi and Tokimassa are worse.

Mitigating Qualities?

Now, the thing is that we never actually see Tokimassa in person, or in flashback. But while this might seem like an instant disqualifier, we can see the effects of what he has done- we see flashbacks of his followers and, through their dialogue, see how they have been brainwashed by him into believing that they are sinful and corrupt. We also see a flashback, however brief, of the immediate aftermath of the ritual, with bodies strewn around. But perhaps the most important evidence is a letter that Ayami finds. She says it might have been written by Tokimassa himself, and given the way it is written and the content, I am fairly certain he is the author of this letter. With that in mind, the letter gives us an insight into his thinking:

The end is coming. I can see their twisted shapes walking in the shadows.
The fools don't see the punishment that has been brought upon us for our sins. Only I can lead them to salvation.
I have studied the old texts and uncovered their truths. Soon I will prepare the girl, her purity will banish the darkness and lead our souls to the land of the kami...
My faithful are not afraid to die, and will lead the others to do what must be done.
Tomorrow I will begin the final preparation. Emiko assures me that those who can eat the meal will die a pure death. Through my guidance, she has prepared my own means of salvation as well.
All I need is a bit of the girl's blood and all will be right. The machine of man's stain upon the world will soon be erased.

So yeah, even though he never appears, Tokimassa demonstrates his personality through the letter. Aside from that, a former member of the cult notes that he was clearly just using his followers as sacrifices to the Mask so he can reach the world of the gods, and unlike the original Kamenkai who were trying to protect humanity, Tokimassa actively relishes in the idea of the Dark destroying all humanity.

Verdict?

I figure he measures up to Higashi.

Speaking of Eiichi, here is that quote I have for him. Anyone else wanna vote, here it is:

T-that monster...how many girls did Higashi pass around and abuse before she murdered him?
Detective Ayami Itō upon learning of Eiichi Higashi's physical, verbal, and sexual abuse of Reina, Tokyo Dark

Edited by MasterN on Mar 4th 2020 at 11:55:30 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#204202: Mar 5th 2020 at 12:19:29 AM

[tup] Sauron (I remember playing that game a lot with my brother back in the day) Evangeline CSI Trio and Tokimassa

I've always been curious about Lo TR, why doesn't Saroman count? He certainly seems heinous enough, at least in the books. I haven't read the books so I'm probably missing some information that's in them but I'm still curious

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 5th 2020 at 1:24:54 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204203: Mar 5th 2020 at 12:48:19 AM

Yes to the CSI trio.

I'm hesitant on Tokimassa, considering we don't SEE him.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#204204: Mar 5th 2020 at 1:41:40 AM

Sounds like an Evangeline case. If there's sufficient evidence of his wrongdoings, I'm confortable with him. Yes to Tokimassa.

Sure to CSI Trio and Sauron as well.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 5th 2020 at 10:42:17 AM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#204205: Mar 5th 2020 at 2:01:32 AM

[tdown]Tokimassa

Since we don't even see him. You can cite a lot of characters where we see evidence of their crimes but those villains still actually appear in the plot

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#204206: Mar 5th 2020 at 2:09:36 AM

[tup] to Jimmy Burris, Casey Steele and Dimitri Sadesky.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204207: Mar 5th 2020 at 2:49:46 AM

Which leads me to ask: Do we actually see Higashi?

Edited by ACW on Mar 5th 2020 at 5:49:58 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204208: Mar 5th 2020 at 3:14:35 AM

As the person who proposed him, yes. You see physically when viewing Reina's past. When the time the game happens, he's been killed by Reina and only a bag of meat which was his corpse is seen.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 5th 2020 at 3:15:02 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#204210: Mar 5th 2020 at 3:40:27 AM

@miraculous That being said, the letter still shows that he's present in some form in the story. Combined with the significant evidence of his crimes, I'm still saying yes to him.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204211: Mar 5th 2020 at 3:59:48 AM

So Nomoa Long's a definite cut?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#204212: Mar 5th 2020 at 4:00:54 AM

Honestly I say cut too. The troper who proposed him is so untrustworthy

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#204213: Mar 5th 2020 at 4:03:47 AM

By the way, I remember seeing that Malibu comics about Mortal Kombat was taken by someone, so can I ask if I can check take them? Really interested in reading those.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204214: Mar 5th 2020 at 4:10:20 AM

No to the Tokyo Dark character. We need them showing up at least briefly to see in person if they’ve got substantial personality and alone a letter from them isn’t enough.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204215: Mar 5th 2020 at 4:16:40 AM

[up] Hell, not even that. Many of the crime show guys (Criminal Minds; NCIS; etc.) don't show up for too much, but we at least see them, if only briefly.

I THINK Lighty(?) was doing the MK comics.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#204216: Mar 5th 2020 at 4:28:46 AM

@miraculous I see MK comic Shao Kahn on your to-do as well. What say you on VVV taking that from you?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#204217: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:06:59 AM

I have a quote for Uncle Rudi in The Man from U.N.C.L.E. (2015). It's a monologue.

"Once upon a time, there was a little boy. You wouldn't describe him... as a particularly special little boy. He was neither tall nor handsome, charismatic or amusing. In fact, he appeared to be exceedingly dull. Because of this boy's apparent shortcomings he was bullied mercilessly and relentlessly by the other children. Year merged with miserable year as life continued to be a living hell. But what the other boys didn't understand about their victim was that he didn't see them as enemies. He saw them as instruments of learning. A priceless lesson was gleaned from his tormentors. Man has only two masters in this world. And their names are Pain and Fear. The boy found he had quite a talent for eliciting these feelings in others. So on the principle of playing to your strengths, he decided to make their cultivation his life's work. Fortunately for this boy history gave him an unprecedented opportunity. A world war. The canvas, Mr. Solo on which he would produce his greatest work. You will go here, Mr. Solo. A whole page just for you. And not in black and white, like the others. No. Kodachrome. The colors are so real, you can almost taste them... There are two kinds of torture, Mr. Solo. One is for the extraction of information. The other is for its own sake. I must admit this does get frustrating. But fortunately I'm in an old-fashioned mood. I think we'll start... with the pliers."

Edited by k410ren on Mar 5th 2020 at 8:13:06 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204218: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:22:05 AM

So has anyone else seen Leatherface 2017? I wonder if Ike would count? He's the crazy escaped inmate who kills people for shits and giggles, and unlike his partner Clarisse, only enters the relation out to satisfy his sex and violence.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204219: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:25:53 AM

Beast put Verna up but that's it. I do recall a duo being proposed from one of the newer TCM movies but got shot down on heinous grounds (I think).

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204220: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:44:48 AM

Probably Ike and Clarise. I'll admit their initial crime is that they kill innocent pretty violently, but that's literally the Sawyers and the Sheriff. That said, what made me consider Ike is unlike the Sawyer he doesn't have any purpose to do so while the Sawyers are just very protective to their family and he and Clarise unlike a lot of the other psychotic inmates is actually quiet sane. Oh, and I know he has rape, or attempted rape, which is something I don't think other characters have, even the Sawyer and necrophilia.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204221: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:50:54 AM

It was, they got a full EP and were downvoted. The fact the Sawyers are protective is a redeeming feature but doesn't mitigate their effect on the heinous standard; additionally, Hoyt is implied to be a rapist, so that's not unique.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#204222: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:54:19 AM

Yes to CSI Trio.

I think Ike was up at some point then cut for some redeeming quality or heinous.

[up] Or I guess they instantly voted down. My mistake.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 5th 2020 at 7:56:08 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204223: Mar 5th 2020 at 5:56:56 AM

[up] Probably heinous, there's nothing redeeming about him. The only argument I could say is Necrophilia, but I don't know if that could be heinous enough or even a unique type of heinous. Just curious, since this guy would be a CM in any other movie.

Wait, isn't Hoyt in another continuity? The Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake is its own timeline and the 2017 version is part of the 3D Timeline which is different. Am I understanding this correctly?

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 5th 2020 at 6:00:18 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204224: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:09:11 AM

If the EP ever contains "We never see X in person" or never even hear dialogue from them? No.

And the Malibu MK comics? Feel free to check them out, but I still intend to give a look when I can. Yes to the the Uncle Rudi quote.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204225: Mar 5th 2020 at 6:16:58 AM

Fuck it, I'm not brushed up on the TCM continuities but—and I don't wanna dwell on this since it's a particularly distasteful subject matter—necrophilia isn't really worth much in heinousness IMO since there's no longer a consciousness in the body to be traumatized by the sexual assault, it's just fucking gross.


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