During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Evangeline.
I fixed the the write up in the drafts. Getting rid of some of the they'd/theirs and changing take over to collect.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 4th 2020 at 11:43:05 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadThe new Bond film has been delayed till November due to cornovirus
. Guess were going to have to wait longer to see what happens to bond's stepbrother.
That's unfortunate. I'll notify ~Men In Grey To Blak.
In the meantime, I hope to subject myself to a film called Mad Foxes, and see if it was as bad as people say, even if I get an effortpost out of it, so I should be AFK for the next hour or so.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 4th 2020 at 1:32:58 PM
Cell was technically 6 if we discount however long he was in his larval form. He was 2 when he killed Trunks the first time but most of his actions happened when he was 6
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 4th 2020 at 11:48:05 AM
Jinxyy has plenty of interesting stories. Wouldn't be surprised if I end up with a couple more keepers by digging there.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)@Mir Well, Desil already committed war crimes when he was 7.
@ACW
Evangelique
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 4th 2020 at 4:26:39 PM
Ok, I just finished watching Mad Foxes and the results were, um, inconclusive. It was hard to tell which of the bikers was which and none of them stood out as particularly heinous to me as individuals, plus some of them expressed care for a fallen comrade, but I'm not sure which one. So if anyone wishes to second guess me, by all means do so (if you can stomach the lousy acting and script).
Hi, I apologize for once again bringing up an old resolved case, but after searching through this thread for a bit I...don't understand why Matt Engarde from Ace Attorney was removed.
The justification is he doesn't meet the heinous standard because he has a lower body count, right? But that doesn't make sense because he doesn't really. Engarde killed one person via assassin and purposefully pressured another person to suicide, which makes for a body count of 2. Several of the AA villains on the page, with the exception of Dahlia who is a Serial Killer, also have a body count of 2. Kristoph Gavin only kills two people. Von Karma only has an indirect body count of 2. Hell the concept of Ace Attorney basically runs on having one murder per chapter/case, so having a body count above two in the setting is actually very difficult. You can argue that both Gavin and Von Karma get a bonus because they murder in especially nasty ways for petty reasons, but thats also exactly the same as Engarde bullying a woman into suicide, killing his rival, and then kidnapping an innocent teenage girl and using her life as a hostage just to help his acting career.
This isn't really an EP because I'm not strongly sure Engarde counts and not yet at the point where I'd want to strongly advocate for him but I just don't understand the logic used for his removal so wanted to bring it up lol
Edited by WaryHoglet on Mar 4th 2020 at 1:59:40 AM
Hey guys, I was thinking about E Ping about Admiral Razorbeard from Rayman 2, cause I remember that being pretty dark for a kids’ game, and I was thinking if Razorbeard could count in that game. Should I go for it?
We shot him down already for being Played for Laughs
Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2020 at 1:56:35 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I got an honestly terrifying picture to propose
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 4th 2020 at 4:34:08 AM

Got another candidate. Stellarvore, if you thought Luke Lerner was bad... Thinking again is heavily advised after reading that EP.
What's the work?
Evangeline
is an interesting 19-chapter suspense/horror story written by Jinxyy from October 11, 2011 to October 25, 2011.
At first sight, Leslie Selwyn's family doesn't seems that bad. Traditional nuclear family and all that shit. She's a nice, good mother. Her husband Dean is a bit distant, but otherwise fine, extremely close to their first-born 9-year daughter Evangeline Maria, who is exceptionally nice, outgoing and pleasant, in contrast to the much more withdrawn, younger 7-year old Audrina Rose.
Now, I'd like to point out that Evangeline and Audrina kinda reminded me of two characters of my own story, Daughter of Darkness
written last year (Jinxyy just did it better than myself. By a landslide). Shameless promotion, I know.
Now, Audrina kinda reminds me of Ali. While Evangeline is much closer to Zay.
In worse.
Who's Evangeline? What has she done?
Ladies and Gentlemen, strap yourselves in!
See, beneath her nice girl facade, Evangeline has a done a couple of... Questionable stuff.
Now, slaughtering the family's fishes by emptying a bottle of bleach in the fishtank isn't much. Killing the 14-year old family dog, Lacy, has a bit more personal villainy, but it doesn't really crosses the line. Burning the town's church is bad, but nothing special. Hiding condoms, porn, drugs, a bloody knife, and using a lighter doesn't comes farther than Troubling Unchildlike Behavior.
So, why is she proposed?
See, in school, Evangeline has an interesting behavior. According to her teacher, "although Evangeline always had someone to sit with at lunch or talk to in the classroom, the person she did things with seemed to change constantly. While doing group activities or sitting as a class to listen to stories or play games, none of the others sat near Evangeline except whoever she was currently best friends with."
That being said, let's talk Emily, one of Evangeline's... FORMER classmates. See, behind the scenes, Evangeline sexually molested Emily, threatened to reveal the whole thing if Emily so much as talked, forced her to do her homework and give her anything Emily had that your daughter wanted, and forced her to give her $42. Good thing Emily moved to another school.
As for Audrina... She isn't just a withdrawn girl, but an outright Broken Bird. All thanks to big sister Evangeline!
Enjoy the details of how much of a caring big sister Evangeline is!
"Evangeline tells her sweet, shy, beautiful little sister that she's stupid and ugly and weak, that she's not her real sister, not our real child. She tells Audrina that she was a baby no one wanted at the hospital, and Evangeline felt sorry for her and convinced us to take her home. She tells Audrina that the only reason she lives with us is because Evangeline allows her to, and that if ever Audrina were to disobey her or make her too angry, Evangeline could have us send her away. She told her that she killed her real little sister when she made her angry, and that Audrina better watch her step.
Evangeline has set up an elaborate, furtive system to control Audrina through her fear, a system where Audrina is punished for anything Evangeline deems a transgression and is made her unwilling confidante. And all this time Audrina has been suffering in silence, believing Evangeline's every word, having no reason not to…not when Evangeline always carries it out.
When Audrina speaks too often, or spends too much time alone with one of us or gets too much attention from me or Dean, Evangeline breaks her toys, telling her all the while that she is lucky, because the next time, it could be Audrina herself who breaks. Evangeline sometimes climbs into bed with Audrina at night and cuddles up to her, whispering darkly in her ear all the ways she could hurt or kill her if Audrina ever breathed a word. Evangeline stands over Audrina in her bed and flicks her lighter in her face, just to let her know how easily she could let it slip from her fingers…"
Of course, she molested her as well!
But when Audrina tells Leslie what happened... Evangeline thinks that her sis spoke too much and smothers her to death with a pillow! This sents Leslie over the edge and she attempts to kills Evangeline... Who promptly manipulates Leslie into thinking she's actually the one to blame, breaking Leslie further and allowing Evangeline to call 911 to avoid death. Oh, and she frames Leslie for everything she did of course, leaving her in prison, even though Leslie has hopes of getting out.
Comeuppance? HA HA HA—No.
Emily's mom was the closest to do it, by reporting to the police, but Emily begged her not to tell. However, perhaps she should've thought about it upon hearing about Leslie being blamed for Evangeline's crimes...
Heinous standard?
For a 9-year old daughter, Evangeline jumps over the heinous standard like she's Luigi Mario. Sexual molestation, abuse, blackmail, extortion, murder, emotional manipulation.... And her victims include her sister, the family animals and her mother, which gives her significant personal villainy.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming qualities?
Nope and nope. Nothing explains why she's so depraved, and while she's friendly with everyone, it's a clear-cut case of Bitch in Sheep's Clothing and Faux Affably Evil. She doesn't do anything bad to her dad Dean and is very close to him, but only for attention and to manipulate him further.
Generic Doomsday Villain issues?
At this point, it's clear that nope, she isn't like that at all. Disturbingly realistic high-functioning sociopath.
Any other mitigating factors?
All of her crimes are offscreen, but there's so much evidence and impact that it's hardly Offscreen Villainy. Emily's mom is the one informing Leslie of Emily's case, the church's charred remains are seen, as well as the fishes, Audrina and Lacy's corpses, and her manipulative personnality is shown on-screen.
Verdict ?
A keeper without a doubt, I'd say.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 4th 2020 at 7:52:06 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)