During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
A third Nyarly in such a short time? Yes to him and Jack the Ripper.
Quite ironic knowing that two of the Real Life Jack The Ripper suspects were Jewish
.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 2nd 2020 at 7:56:07 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Ordaal, Ki, another Jack and another Nyarly. Speaking of anti-semites...
What is the work? The Fourth Reich is a weird but intriguing piece of Christian Fiction written by the late Robert D. Van Kamper
that combines elements of Conspiracy Thriller, Religious Horror and The Bible (primarily the Book of Revelation) into one single novel. The story (initially) centers around the Russian siblings Yacov and Sonya, ex-IDF
soldiers returning to their homeland to take care of their disabled father. Things seem pretty okay until they get involved with a charismatic but enigmatic politician who vows to unify Russia and then the world to bring about an era of peace. If you're already familiar with religious works, then you know where this is going.
Who is he? The mysterious Nikolai Bulgakov, seemingly a promising politicial rival of President Vladimir Katanov, is in fact the second coming of The Antichrist and the cloned reincarnation of his predecessor, Adolf Hitler. Still remembering what he did to millions of people in his past life, Bulgakov seeks to start another Holocaust to appease his father and Take Over the World in his name, just so he doesn't get to return to the deepest pit of Hell. Starting his career after receiveing a degree in political science and graduating from the Moscow State University, Bulgakov assassinated a number of people from his early years and those who tried to uncover his past, going as far as to cause a plane crash just to kill a single writer. Once Bulgakov manages to establish himself as a trusted politician, he thinks about inciting a Civil War in Russia to overthrow the president, but he soon gets recruited into Katanov's government to act as his prime minister instead. Not satisfied with his position and planning on rising even higher, Bulgakov disposes of Yacov and his father to Kick the Dog, framing the double murder as a political assassination ordered by Vladimir to manipulate Sonya and her lust for revenge. Going against the president himself, Bulgakov poisons him at his own dacha and then orchestrates a Deceased Fall-Guy Gambit, concealing the assassination behind the mask of a heart attack and accusing Vladimir of a serious crime to earn the trust of another guest, an important Muslim leader.
Swiftly assuming presidency after the successful coup, Bulgakov begins to convince the nations to join his illustrious New United Empire, taking advantage of his clairvoyant abilities to buy most of grain supplies a year before the world gets hit pretty hard by several civil wars, disasters and famine, allowing unaffiliated nations to suffer as his way of forcing the starving countries to join the NUE. Finally achieving his One World Order, Bulgakov reverts back to his Hitler persona before the UN General Assembly and reveals his plans to establish the Fourth Reich, but not before blowing up the Vatican just because a Cardinal dared to oppose him. Not long after the revelation of Bulgakov's true identity, his NUE troops stationed in Jerusalem start firing at protesters, and he personally taunts the president of Israel by reminding him of his relatives who died in Auschwitz, killing an innocent Rabbi in his visit to a temple. As the supreme leader of the world, Bulgakov approves the creation of his universal microchip and the demon-controlled Reich Emblems, demonic objects made to detect rebels and deliver Bulgakov's orders to the citizens of the Fourth Reich, executing anyone who refuses to take his mark; the demons inside the Reich Emblems are willing to hurt the citizens of the Fourth Reich to make people kill each other.
Using the mobilized troops of the Fourth Reich to summarily execute those who refuse to obey him and an auxiliary paramilitary force, the Reich Royalists, to slaughter even more people, Bulgakov's orders result in congregations being massacred everywhere, including: Chicago, Seoul, London, Berlin, Beijing, Tokyo, Manila and Sidney; the reporters personally witness a squad of Reich Royalists executing men, women and children. After Sonya's husband, a Rebel Leader, is finally captured, Bulgakov has him tortured and sentenced to public execution, televising his death for the entire world to see. Having already killed several millions of people, Bulgakov gives the order for his soldiers to sweep across Jerusalem in search of Sonya and La Résistance, envisioning them killing every unmarked civilian in their path. When God finally steps in and decides to Pay Evil unto Evil by bringing misery and destruction to the Apathetic Citizens of the now-defunct NUE, Bulgakov simply refuses to give up despite all the signs and keeps the people under his control via the Reich Emblems, leading to a wave of disasters and diseases around the world that result in millions of casualties; lacking any genuine pity for his citizens, Bulgakov kills another world leader for showing concern over the situation and declares "First things first. For now, we need to care of things here. The rest must take care of themselves". Initiating "Operation Yeshua" as his ultimatum in an attempt to kill Jesus and win a battle that was prophesied to fail miserably, Bulgakov unsurprisingly fails miserably and leads his troops to their demise before getting thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Mitigating Factors? Nada. Aside from providing shelter to Fourth Reich citizens out of Pragmatic Villainy, Bulgakov has a Villainous Friendship with his advisor but he frequently explodes at him and treats him as a servant for most of the time, even his own mistress had to carry his mark.
Heinous? Bulgakov/Hitler is easily one of the worst depictions of The Antichrist in modern fiction, the only possible issue here is God himself and his extreme case of Good Is Not Soft. God is in fact a Nice Guy to anti-NUE civilians and resistance fighters, if you're on Bulgakov's side and carries his mark, however? It's Hell on Earth for you, and children are not safe; get ready for: Disasters, diseases and insectoid demons that will not kill you but inject you with a toxin that induces excruciating pain. But as I discussed before, God's wrath is a direct result of Bulgakov's actions on Earth and his refusal to admit defeat only worsened a situation that was already horrible to begin with.
Conclusion? Up to you.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 3rd 2020 at 5:09:48 PM
Nyarlathotep 30.0 (seriously how many Nyarlathotep's do we have on this page lmao) an
Antichrist Hitler (I think it'd be difficult to make a character that's literally Hitler as the Antichrist without making them a really over-the-top CM but maybe I could be surprised lol)
Edited by WaryHoglet on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:25:31 AM
Yes to Bulgakov.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 3rd 2020 at 9:23:45 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
April!Nya (wow, our third female Nyarlathotep), other Nya and Jack, and Anti-Christ Hitler.
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. In the 1800s, the Jewish population in England was in a state of flourishment and prosperity, with plenty of Eastern immigration as well. Not surprised antisemitism was on the rise as well.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Yes to both Nyarlys, Jack and Bulgakov.
Hey I guys I won't be here today. I got robbed yesterday. So my anxiety is getting the of me, and I need to take at least one day to get myself calm again.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 3rd 2020 at 6:45:06 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Nyarly and Jack
Nikolai Bulgakov
Good Luck Bullman, I wish you the best
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 3rd 2020 at 10:58:12 AM
Watch me destroying my countryEep. Stay safe Bullman.
Also: Comic Books
- Azzael, debuting in 1995's "The Chained Coffin", is the father of Anung un Rama, who would become Hellboy. A powerful figure in Hell, Azzael corrupted many mortals, being known as a lord of local witches in England. Marrying the witch Sarah Hughes, Azzael later returned for her, murdering her human children and taking her to Hell where he burnt her away to retrieve his true son. Cutting off his son's hand to fit it with The Right Hand of Doom, Azzael intended on causing the apocalypse to control the Ogdru Jahad himself, and though his presence in the series is minimal, all the troubles in the series can be traced back to Azzael's monstrous nature.
- Herman von Klempt, debuting near the beginning, is a Nazi scientist with an inability to stay dead, even after having been reduced to little more than a head in a jar. Herman von Klempt attempts to resurrect an old Nazi project to wipe out America with slaughterous vampires; tries to take out the spinal fluid of young peasant girls in his first meeting with Hellboy; and conducts terrifying experiments on hundreds in the depths of an old prison in Brazil. Herman von Klempt reaches his full streak of evil upon pledging his service to the Ogdru Jahad; von Klempt manipulates his daughter into unearthing an apocalyptic beast known as the Conqueror Worm to devour all humanity, first feeding all of her soldiers to the beast and wickedly transforming his own granddaughter into a misshapen beast to watch as he reduces the Earth to a scorched tinder and hands it over to the Ogdru Jahad.
- Nimue, debuting in issue #38 but mentioned earlier, is the Queen of Blood, and is also also known as Vivienne or The Lady Of The Lake. Once a mighty sorceress who betrayed the great Wizard Merlin and imprisoned him to live eternally in his own grave, Nimue was imprisoned for 1,500 years by the witches of Britain. Upon her revival to lead the Wild Hunt, Nimue destroys the other witches of Britain and sets about marshaling an army of the Fae. When one ambassador comes to her to say his king will stand with her, Nimue forces him to murder his king, cut out his heart and forge her a new crown with it. Nimue launches vicious purges to ensure there is no threat to her rule, intending to exterminate humanity to the last man. When defeated and being dragged to hell by the witches she'd murdered, Nimue spitefully tears out Hellboy's heart to ensure she won't face damnation alone.
- The Crooked Man (issues #33-35): Jeremiah "Miser" Witkins was a war profiteer who helped to cause conflict between Natives and the colonists to line his own pockets. After being caught playing the British and colonists against one another, he was hanged and returned worse. A soul collector who makes dark bargains to obtain the souls of his victims, Witkins, as the titular Crooked Man, haunts the Appalachian Mountains, bargaining with Tom Ferrell to do evil as so many others have with his power. When Tom refuses to use his power for wickedness, Witkins has Tom's father turned into a horse and ridden to death, murdering the kind girl Cora Fisher who became a witch by sheer misfortune and lays siege to the local church with his slaves. Killing and corrupting countless innocents in the backwoods, Witkins stops at nothing to claim the souls he feels he has been owed, keeping them as hellbound slaves or gold coins he refuses to ever part with.
- The Sleeping and the Dead (issues #51-52): The Vampire Lord is a powerful vampire who helped to concoct the scheme to set most European vampires to secrecy, plotting to build their numbers and raise them centuries hence when mankind has forgotten them, allowing them to slaughter millions and take over the planet. The Vampire Lord corrupts a woman named Katherine into his vampire slave, taking her younger sister Mary as a plaything before turning her into a horrific monster imprisoned in her old house. The Vampire Lord and Katherine then prey on dozens of innocents, slowly murdering them before he attempts to raise his victims in a fury to slaughter Hellboy and the other BPRD agents.
- B.P.R.D.:
- "The Soul of Venice" (issue #4): Romulus Diovanni was a depraved Venetian nobleman whose debaucherous parties attracted the attention of a vampire whom Diovanni befriended. Diovanni's evil exceeded even the vampire's own, and when the vampire denied Diovanni immortality, Diovanni tortured his former friend for years on end before eating him, becoming a vampire, and slaughtering hundreds. Unsatisfied with even this power, Diovanni hunts for 600 years to capture the soul of Venice's goddess Cloacina and hand her over to Shax for the power to command Shax's forces to come upon all humanity.
- Landis Pope, debuting in issue #19, is the second inheritor of the Black Flame mantle who starts out as the amoral CEO of the Zinco Corporation, unearthing the Black Flame suit for his own ends. Pope begins with the capacity for remorse and horror over what tampering with the Kartha-Hem leads to, but loses it after his seeming Disney Villain Death following his murder of Liz Sherman's homunculus friend Roger and his entire squad. Fully bonding himself to the Black Flame suit, Pope is rescued by the King of Fear and his subterranean people, where Pope repays them by manipulating and eventually killing the King of Fear in his bid to harness the Ogdru Jahad and restart humanity through them. After his death and resurrection during Hell on Earth, Pope sets himself up as a god among the survivors of New York, massacring everyone who stands up against him and shedding no tears even over the death of his loyal servant Marsten. Of all those in Hellboy who seek to use the Ogdru Jahad for delusionally well-intentioned ends, Pope stands out for ultimately throwing aside his humanity in his bid to make the Ogdru Jahad his and have them annihilate the entire planet, wreaking horrific carnage on the world at large through them before his final death at Liz's hand.
Edited by ACW on Mar 3rd 2020 at 11:26:58 AM
Btw guys. Theirs apparently going to be a sequel to the crooked man called Hellboy and the BPRD: The return if effie kolb
.
Seems Jeremiah may not be done after all.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

So my next Darcy Coates villain from Folcroft ghosts didn't pan out. Not only is she of questionable sanity. She has a bodycount of two which uh involved painless oxygen deprivation (Suffice to say not heinous enough).
Anyway my Kthula reich example. Thanks scraggle for letting me have this one. From the short story "April 20th, 1889". I give you a duo of villains that you guys are very familiar with at this point.
Who are jack the ripper and Nyarlathotep ?
The Walking chaos himself who fucks with humanity for fun, Nyarlathotep arrives in London and makes contact with a follower of his named jack the ripper. The two set about a plan. Nyarlathotep shows him off a ritual which would help Jack fulfill his antisemitic fantasies. Jack begins stalking prostitutes and brutally killing and mutilating them to as part of Human sacrifices. From dozens of stab wounds to outright forcing a woman's tongue out.
Anyway s l mathers , a sorcerer for the golden dawn organisation begins to investigate these brutal murders with a due to the knife having a magical tip which could only be detected by magical users. The third AND FPOURTH victims has her reproductive organs and intestines removed with Nyarlathotep carved into her. With antimsemtic messages crawled at the scence of one of the murders. Mathers goes to an assicoate of his William Wynn Wescott in search of what this ritual must ential.
Anyway Jack kills his final fifth victim who was meant to be a young woman of jewish and uses her organs, womb and soul to complete his spell. Wescott reveals himself in a mocking letter to Mathers to be jack himself. Wesley is the true founder of the reich and his spell was meant to create the Antichrist adolf hitler himself. Wesly reveals how this was all done so hitler will eventually mow down and create the holocaust to rid the world of the "jews" who he despises as well as wipe out most of europe while his asscoiates in europe who are ready to help hitler when the time is right lay waiting. The message ends with Mathers getting his mind wiped as Jack/Wescott happily reveals how his plan will come to fruition and cause mass death and chaos.
Mitigating factors ?
Meh these two share equal culpability. It was Nyarlathotep who showed jack how to do the plan and sort of spurred him on but it was jack who actually killed the women and set the plan in motion.
Nyarlathotep is just doing this since he likes fucking with humanity and this would bring it and Jack is a raging bigot who wishes to create a 'pure master race" and be rid of Jewish people.
Heinous standard?
Its a dark work but these two make it easily. These two literally founded the reich in a bid for final solution, mutilate woman in horrific ways and literally create the Antichrist adolf hitler specifically so he can pull a Final Solution in Europe and have it be rid of the jewish. As founders of the reich, they are responsible for untold numbers of atrocities.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 2nd 2020 at 10:40:04 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."