During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Coyle.
One more right now from another compilation I picked up. This is from Her Misbegotten Son from Alan Rodgers, about the tale of Keziah Mason's son Jason (Jason Mason?).
Keziah Mason, amazingly enough, doesn't count. She bursts into a fit of tearful grief when her benefactor is killed—said benefactor you don't need to guess hard the identity of. The "Dark Man," Nyarlathotep.
Who is the Dark Man? What has he done?
The bogeyman of Arkham, the Dark Man, true name of course Nyarlathotep, is a wicked and sinister entity that presides over all the dark happenings in this town. Keziah Mason is his chief servant and witch. The Dark Man has Keziah Mason father children solely to brutally and gorily butcher them in his name, with a series of over half-a-dozen grisly child sacrifices already dating back in Arkham's sordid history. Keziah's latest child, Jason, is given up to an adoptive family so Keziah can take him when he's ready...
When Jason turns nine, Keziah and the wicked Dark Man reveal themselves. The Dark Man taunts Jason about his mettle and attempts to have Keziah kill him. When a man named Dan attempts to stop the Dark Man, the Dark Man enacts horrible vengeance on him; the Dark Man eviscerates Dan and curses him to stay alive in that agonized state, in an unnatural form of agony for hours as doctors rush to figure out what's wrong, until the curse is broken with (sigh) holy water.
The Dark Man is repelled, but three months later, when Jason's baby brother Enoch is born, he and Keziah return. The Dark Man has Enoch kidnapped and Jason's babysitter tied to a table and her wrists slit, bleeding her out and nearly killing her (the police arrive in time). The Dark Man's final ritual is to sacrifice the three-month year old Enoch to him and Jason in one fell swoop, mauling Jason's father to near-death when he tries to stop him. Fortunately, Jason defeats Nyarlathotep by...
...throwing holy water on him, which melts him and kills him forever. That's it. Sic transit Nyarlathotep, God of a Thousand Faces, Crawling Chaos, and apparently the Wicked Witch of the West.
Any mitigating factors?
Nope. Inconceivably lame ending aside, the Dark Man keeps. He's not ruining civilizations in this one, but he's still conducting horrific infant sacrifice with a variety of horrible personal murders and attempted murders as to what. I wish Keziah could keep because I don't actually think any iteration of her emphasizes Offing the Offspring with her, but Nyarly here gets extra points for enforcing that.
Conclusion?
Keep Nyarlathotep. And keep some holy water handy on you, too.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 2nd 2020 at 2:56:11 AM
Yes to Nyarlathotep.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 2nd 2020 at 3:57:03 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread'Yes' to our latest Lovecraftian baddies!
Alright, though we may have lost Image!Karza? I have two others from the franchise to semi-make up for his loss...
What's the work?
Micronauts—as published by Image Comics—follows Ryan Archer, a human man who finds himself transported to the dimension of Microspace. Teaming up with a variety of alien races, Archer has to combat the evil dictator of the Microverse—Baron Karza—and his many minions, generals and monsters in command.
Now, during the time these comics were published, Image also published a trilogy of novels by Steve Lyon, titled "The Time Traveler Trilogy", which tells of Ryan Archer ending up in an alternate universe to his current one, changed by tampering with the stream of time.
The first of our candidates is a very minor villain from the original Image comic, who takes center stage as the Big Bad of the first novel...
Who is he?
Ordaal likens himself to a businessman, but truthfully, he's something worse. A mercenary. Greedy and with a flair for being cruel to others just because he has more power than them, Ordaal in the original comic spent his time rounding up varieties of aliens to be handed off to Karza for experimentation.
Ordaal in the novels, existing in a timeline where Karza doesn't rule, instead makes his cash through more...personal means.
What has he done?
Ordaal arrives on Earth and, partnering with the slimy mayor of Angel's Gift, Roger Delaney, begins supplying the small town with technology and even sets up a circus. Using a variety of captured aliens across the cosmos, Ordaal enslaves, tortures and abuses them into being a performing freak show of sorts, entertaining the citizens of Angel's Gift while Ordaal fulfills his actual purpose for being on Earth, and begins to systematically butcher innocent people, harvest their internal organs, and then stockpile them, planning to then travel the cosmos and sell the organs on alien black markets.
Killing and disappearing many people this way, Ordaal is soon enough approached by a horrified Delaney, who had fully realized the nastiness Ordaal has been up to, and reveals that a witness saw some of Ordaal's latest atrocities in full. Ordaal just shrugs, revealing he'll track down said witness and harvest them for parts, and when an increasingly disgusted Delaney threatens to go to the police, Ordaal promptly beats him into submission, promising to slaughter the citizens of Angel's Gift until the entire town is "awash in blood" if Delaney tries to back out now.
When Ordaal deems Ryan Archer a threat and tries to personally kill him—nearly blasting through Delaney's chest just to get a good shot at Archer—Archer approaches a group of soldiers and reveals Ordaal's true plans to them via recording....Ordaal arrives on scene and gruesomely kills the entire squad of soldiers to silence them now that they know the truth, before continuing his pursuit of Archer.
Eventually capturing Archer by threatening the life of his best friend Bill, Ordaal has Archer locked in the cages with his circus "freaks"...when one of them tries to help Archer escape, Ordaal threatens them all with death unless the perpetrator comes forth, before he simply shoots one of the captives dead out of annoyance. When the actual one who helped Archer steps forward—Knave—Ordaal tortures him with electricity before ordering his crew to start packing up, as Angel's Gift has realized the truth and started riots in the street against the mayor and Ordaal's troops.
Ordering his men to open fire on the rioting townsfolk, Ordaal tries to make his way to his ship and comes under attack by a group of people who he easily shrugs off with his power armor, but when they sufficiently annoy him, he starts personally massacring them all, setting some on fire, crushing others with his bare hands...until Archer turns up, helps the folks overpower Ordaal, and turns off his power armor, leaving the madman to be horribly brutalized by the crowd before being dragged off and locked away, until the time line is re-altered back to normal and Ordaal returns to his original state: dead as a doorknob.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Not a one. Ordaal is obsessed with profit and power, and abuses or threatens everyone in his employ. Delaney is nothing but a stooge to Ordaal, and Ordaal's partner in crime—Azura Nova—shows no love for him nor him for her, to such a point that Nova happily ditches Ordaal in the endgame to his fate.
Heinousness?
Ordaal's a nasty piece of work. He's in an alternate timeline, so whether Karza's crimes impact his standard is up for debate, but even still Ordaal handily hits the mark. Brutal slavery, butchering innocents for their organs, personally slaughtering several people just for witnessing his crimes or annoying him, and threatening to butcher the entirety of Angel's Gift all lie at his feet.
Final Verdict?
Handy Keep for Ordaal.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
