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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Willbyr MOD Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#203876: Mar 2nd 2020 at 6:39:33 AM

In case anyone was suspicious, RPGKnight45 was bounced as a Fan727 sock.

Edited by Willbyr on Mar 2nd 2020 at 8:42:22 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203877: Mar 2nd 2020 at 6:46:00 AM

I have a question regarding Dr. Zander Rice from X-23: Innocence Lost & Target: X comics.

Here is his current entry:

X-23: Innocence Lost & Target: X: Dr. Zander Rice, one of the lead scientists of Weapon X's X-23 project, has X-23 kept in a padded room except during training sessions or assassination missions, and sadistically torturing her at the age of seven. He develops a pheromone "trigger" to activate her berserker rage, using it to get X-23 to kill her martial arts instructor, and leaves her behind on a mission to be killed after he murders the other members of the team. After X-23 shows back up alive, Rice then manipulates the head of the X-23 project-who had raised Rice after his father's death-into granting Rice control of the project, at which point Rice then sends X-23 to kill the man, his wife, and son-even though Rice knows the boy is his own son. Upon taking over the project, he begins the development of embryos X-24 through X-50, which he intends to sell to the highest bidders, and then taints the one remaining person X-23 cares about, the project scientist who was her surrogate mother, with the "trigger", which causes X-23 to fatally injure the woman. Rice's motive is that he ostensibly wants revenge for his father, who worked on the original-Wolverine-Weapon X project and was killed by Wolverine when he escaped, and X-23 is Logan's genetic double; he really just wants to avenge his own ego.

My problem lies in the last sentence Rice's motive is that he ostensibly wants revenge for his father, who worked on the original-Wolverine-Weapon X project and was killed by Wolverine when he escaped, and X-23 is Logan's genetic double; he really just wants to avenge his own ego.

Like it goes out of it's way to make it look like Zander wanted to avenge his father, then abruptly says that he just wanted to avenge his own ego, without anything in the middle that would show how Zander subvert his possible care for his father. So, anyone who read this comic, can you tell if Zander actually wanted to avenge his ego or his father's death?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203878: Mar 2nd 2020 at 6:48:09 AM

I actually added that last bit to AVOID this confusion; granted, it's still not great. I think Comic!Rice was one of Lighty's.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203879: Mar 2nd 2020 at 7:05:49 AM

I think for Rice he uses the former as an excuse but it’s gradually revealed to be more about the latter.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203880: Mar 2nd 2020 at 8:33:11 AM

Added to the batch:

  • Dr. STONE: Minister Ibara is the true ruler of the Petrification Kingdom. Having petrified the true leader with the weapon "Medusa", Ibara tried to kill said leader's baby son to remove any "witnesses". Reigning as a tyrant, Ibara has women abducted for the leader's harem, with the rule he is allowed to "sample" them first, gloating how he loves them to put up a struggle first. When Senku and the heroes of the Kingdom of Science alive, Ibara tries to petrify them forever, even sacrificing one of his followers to that end. A lecherous, fiendish tyrant, Ibara cares only to satisfy his own lusts for women or control.
  • Legend of the Millennium Dragon (2011): Monk Gen'un pretends to be a loyal servant of Japan, but is in truth a greedy and ruthless man manipulating a war against the supposed "Oni", in truth human beings attempting to defend themselves from extermination. Killing many himself to gain their power and continuing the war, Gen'un attempts to trick time-traveling hero Jun into destroying the Oni utterly. Found out, Gen'un murders the leadership of his temple and attempts to force his protege Raiko into becoming a monster to destroy the Oni before taking his power with no need for who he destroys in his quest to rule the world.
  • Magical Girl Apocalypse: Rei Kurorogi, using the container body of Kaito Makabe, kidnaps ten female scientists, and knowing one has an ability for him to become a god, perversely experimenting on her and horrifically mutilates the others. Creating two Artificial Human children, Kurorogi as Makabe subjects them to torturous abuse, killing one and driving the other to destroy multiple parallel Earths to ultimately kill himself and escape his creator. Kurorogi also uses the identity of Sou Shirokane to manipulate his brilliant son into becoming an unstable demon that almost destroys Tokyo. Ascending to godhood, Kurorogi attempts to obliterate all life when the heroes oppose him, and after his initial defeat, takes control of the King, the Earth's will, for his revenge. Creating Magical Girl Site, Kurorogi drives anguished teenage girls to complete despair, with the intent to cause the apocalyptic Tempest and assume supreme rule over humanity.
  • The demon known as "Ken", from the season 3 premier "Anne", poses as a friendly man who runs a shelter for troubled teenage runaways. In truth a slaver, Ken lures them in and takes them to his dimension where they are tortured and enslaved in backbreaking labor. Not content with this, Ken has them mentally tormented, grinding down their self-esteem and forcing them to admit they are "no one", killing any who resist. After decades of work in his dimension, Ken throws them to the streets of LA, broken and insane, to die when they cease to be of use, gloating that his realm is hell solely for the pure absence of hope those who enter it suffer.
  • Die Hard (Second Revised Draft): Hans Gruber poses as a terrorist and holds over 30 people hostage in order to rob the Nakatomi Plaza vault of millions in treasury bonds, indifferent to how much blood is shed in the process. Making pseudo-pleasant small talk with Joseph Takagi about his suit, Hans attempts to extract the vault code from Takagi, callously stating he doesn't need the code when the former admits he doesn't know it. When a SWAT team is called in against Hans and his men, Hans has his men use heavy weaponry against them. In response to John McClane's interference, Hans kills a hostage claiming to be John's friend, threatening to kill more hostages until John returns the detonators and explosives he had stolen, which Hans intends on using against the hostages. In response to a police helicopter flying towards Nakatomi, Hans has his men shoot it with missiles. When the hostages hear an explosion from the vault, Hans shoots a screaming hostage while the rest escape, before proceeding to abduct Holly Gennero, John's wife, then vindictively attempting to eliminate them both.
  • Resident Evil 2 fanfic Epic: The Third Survivor: Brian Irons is just as horribly depraved here as he was in canon. The Chief of Raccoon City's Police Department, Irons would allow the Umbrella Corporation to conduct their experiments on the city's citizens, on the pretense that Umbrella would get him elected mayor. During the zombie outbreak in Raccoon City, Irons kidnaps the mayor's daughter and brutally rapes her before shooting her in her stomach, causing her to bleed to death; it would later be revealed that Irons has raped and killed numerous other women beforehand and would convert their bodies into stuffed dolls before putting them in his hidden room as part of Irons's morbid collection.

I'll submit the whole thing tomorrow, and file the cut for Floyd (Cy stays it seems).

Edited by ACW on Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:08:09 PM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203881: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:01:22 AM

[up] Could we keep the Badass in a Nice Suit pothole for Gruber’s name? I don't like using the Big Bad pothole if there is one that works better I don't have to.

Also, the script specifically calls for Gruber to be well dressed.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:06:45 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#203882: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:08:17 AM

[tup] to Ming Katerina and Heydrich

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203883: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:08:54 AM

[up][up] Oh, if that's in the script, sure.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203884: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:21:35 AM

The trailer for Justice League Dark: Apokolips War has come out, so we can expect pretty interesting discussion for it soon.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#203885: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:27:30 AM

Oh yeah, I was doing some further research and watched some if the recent episodes and Veronica Harrington had a few new crimes that I didn't mention in her effortpost (she still has no genuine redeeming qualities).

- She had Maggie shot and killed by a hitman for dating her husband behind her back

- She had Justin arrested, and arranged for a group of men to beat him up and gang-rape him in jail, just because he slapped her

Should any of these be added to her write-up?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203886: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:30:07 AM

This is going to be interesting. Will Dc animated film Darkseid go down for good.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203887: Mar 2nd 2020 at 9:39:34 AM

[up][up] If you can fit them in, sure.

EDIT: I'd say definitely now that I think about it. That makes her a clearer CM for me.

  • The Haves and the Have Nots: Veronica Harrington is the matriarch of the Harrington family. She regularly antagonizes her son, Jeffrey, for being gay. Just a couple of her methods of abuse are cutting him off financially; and blackmailing him into dating—and later impregnating—Melissa by threatening to have him incriminated for Wyatt's hit-and-run crime. Releasing Quincy from jail, she keeps him under her thumb by threatening to have his family killed, and orders Quincy to lay a brutal beatdown on Jeffrey. Discovering that her husband has been having an affair, she lights his mansion on fire while he is asleep in an attempt to kill him. When Wyatt goes to jail, Veronica arranges for an inmate to brutally rape him. She also had Justin arrested and arranged for his beating and rape in prison just because he slapped her; and had a hitman fatally shoot Maggie for sleeping with David. A true narcissist, Veronica was obsessed with making people live the life she wants them to live and won't hesitate to harm anyone who doesn't, including her own family.

Edited by ACW on Mar 2nd 2020 at 3:27:04 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203888: Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:41:20 PM

First of mine for Kthulhu Reich. From the story "Dies Irae" we have Guru Teppa Tsanpo.

Who is Teppa Tsanpo? What has he done?

Tsanpo appears to be a Tibetan emissary of Hitler and one of his closest confidants, to the point Tsanpo seems to have convinced Hitler the Aryans and the Tibetans share genetic history. The truth is slightly less complicated for a Cosmic Horror Story, actually: Tsanpo isn't Tibetan. He's not even human. He's actually a squidlike abomination from another universe who makes his way into ours to control the Reich from within...

Under Tsanpo's guidance, the Reich becomes even worse than it already is. Tsanpo ramps up the slaughter tenfold to the point it becomes clear even to the other Nazis the Reich is basically committing mass murder for the sake of mass murder. Tsanpo has innocents massacred in the camps in perverse rituals meant to harness their lifeforce and their tortured emotional energy, and Tsanpo even has people butchered and served as meals to the unsuspecting soldiers, passing it off as lamb.

Tsanpo has no intention of letting Hitler get his way. Claus von Stauffenberg, the assassin behind the Operation Valkyrie plot, has a terrible realization than Tsanpo at his full power will come upon the world and shatter the Earth, extinguishing all humanity. Operation Valkyrie still doesn't kill Hitler in this universe, but it does manage to blow Tsanpo to hunks of bloody meat and nothing else.

Any mitigating factors?

Reich has a high standard and we've emphasized that, but Tsanpo works well by manipulating and accentuating the villainy of an already-godawful character (Hitler himself, who frankly is worth an EP all on his own given he's the Overarching Villain) and a goal that's just about as explicitly omnicidal as it can get. Tsanpo's cruelty, even for an eldritch horror, is absolutely unmistakable—if making the Reich worse than it is doesn't qualify, I'm not sure what does.

Conclusion?

Keep him.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203893: Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:48:17 PM

[tup]Guru.

I'll have my two tommorow.

Well cap off with hitler himself later.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203894: Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:51:06 PM

Another Lovecraft...this is from a short story from a Steampunk Cthulhu collection. This is The Reverend Mr. Goodworks, written by Edward M. Erdelac. Reverend Goodworks himself is a steampunk cyborg priest who travels the wastelands, dispensing holy justice to those who would seek to exploit the innocent. It doesn't get much more exploitative than a serpent man breeding program. Let's talk Susannah Coyle.

Who is Coyle? What has she done?

Susannah Coyle is a cult leader, the leader of the New Valusians. Valusia being the old kingdom of the Serpent Men. You can see where things go from here—years ago, the leader of the serpent man came to Coyle, and Coyle pledged herself to it, believing it to be the Beast of Revelation. Coyle peddles his lies to a group of like-minded loonies until she has a full cult...and then begins the kidnapping.

Coyle and her minions start going around from village to village, kidnapping women and girls barely old enough to be fertile, slaughtering all the men and leaving the villages as wastes. All these fertile females are brought back to the serpent men, where Coyle has them raped over and over and over by the serpent men until they give birth to serpent babies in an excruciating manner. Women and girls are made to serve this purpose until they give out and are fed to their own monstrous offspring, whereupon Coyle and her minions scour some more villages to do the whole thing again.

Coyle's on her third roundabout. Hundreds if not thousands of women have already been subjected to this fate, as Goodworks finds a woman who only just managed to escape and point the Reverend in the right direction before she perishes. Coyle intends to push the breeding program until the Serpent Men have enough of an army to overwhelm the world and exterminate most of humanity to make slaves of rest. Thankfully, Reverend Goodworks burns her face away, blows her to kingdom come, and follows through with the rest of the cult, killing all the Serpent Men and destroying New Valusia.

Any mitigating factors?

Coyle is as bad as it gets for a willing human servitor of the eldritch. She's killed halfway into the story, but we get lots of insight into her personality and the story emphasizes she's just as much to blame for the atrocities of the Serpent Men as the serpents themselves. No, Coyle has nothing that would complicate her, and the "serpent man breeding program" is one of the most atrocious things I've read out of a Lovecraft story of late.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203896: Mar 2nd 2020 at 12:53:28 PM

[tup]Coyle

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203899: Mar 2nd 2020 at 1:02:20 PM

[tup] Tsanpo and Coyle

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015

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