During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
That and I can also mention that the sequel song, Cuckwick, lacks pretty much any of the over-the-top stuff present in Chuckie. There are still plenty of metaphors, but Chuckwick is treated even more seriously than before. So, I'm still ultimately conformable with him.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
The fact that you acknowledge a significant part of the song is Comedic Sociopathy Played for Laughs is reason enough not to qualify him, it doesn't really matter that some parts are more serious because he's already disqualified
I feel like you're being too quick to judge. We've got plenty of Laughably Evil CMs.
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I agree with on this. But we do have examples of people who count because a sequel or a later episode takes them more seriously.
But I do agree with you that this is a very different case. Do to being very short songs. Which is why I'm officially voting no on Chuckie.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 4:56:21 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadAnd over-the-top in itself isn't disqualifying. That, and I've already explained that even in light of that, Chuckie is seen as horrible even in the first song, and it's pretty clear he means it when he ends the first song by threatening your kids. Heck, the first song's last verse lacks anything remotely over-the-top. Killing 300 when sleepwalking could've been a case of Played for Laughs, but when he kills 300 when awake just after learning it and bragging about how he'd kills your kids and that he went to jail "for assault with a carjack", Played for Laughs is quickly subverted.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:57:56 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)You mean this song
since it doesn't sound like he does anything but brag as well as alot of food related stuff.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Song candidates are always tricky. Abstain.
By the way, ~ACW, I want to make some grammatical changes to the Rippleman entry:
- The Simulacrum, or "The Ripple Man", is an entity that haunts the cyber world and seeks to spread its power and influence, absorbing the souls of its victims into its consciousness. The Ripple Man makes deals with people to protect them from critics and boost their popularity, before it rips their faces apart and takes their souls, leaving them tormented in its consciousness and dimension. The Ripple Man seeks influencers on Kimera to draw more people in, and kills one such influencer, Maya Crane, after she took its deal, and tormented her for some time before claiming her. Haunting Maya's friends, the Ripple Man tries to drive them against each other so that one of them will take its deal after being blamed for Maya's death, at which point it will claim them. Should it succeed, it will try to make a deal with the Player Character that can end with Detective Murilo's department being shut down, leaving it unopposed. If the player gets Maya's friends to work together against it, and successfully banish it, the Ripple Man states it can continue hunting people elsewhere; if unsuccessful, the Ripple Man will claim all of Maya's friends at once.
Bullman: Palpatine's now at the correct spot.
XO: Done. Mir, does Couldn't Find a Pen work for that?
N: Looks good. Please replace the current entry at YMMV with that and I'll take care of it in the batch.
I understand we have some Laughably Evil villains but those are characters from entire series that get plenty of time to show how vile they are seperate from the comedy...not a 4 minute song that's just him listing off his crimes with no background beyond that. I'm still a no.
As for background and personality, I mentioned his self-loathing issues, his suicidal tendancies, his dwarfism and he's obviously Ax-Crazy. For a 4-minute song, I think that's enough.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:29:00 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)@ACW: I think you can file the request to cut Cy now; the vote tally
is 7
s and 12
s, and nobody's really weighing in on him anymore.
Mmm. I've had time to ruminate on Cy and, TBH, I think I lean to a very, very weak keep. The Cruel and Unusual Death doesn't do it for me. Preying on his niece does, if just barely. Everyone else can go, Floyd included.
I'm gonna have some more candidates tonight. Stay tuned.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 1st 2020 at 5:10:49 AM
TBH, comparing Floyd and Cy....
I mean, both are torturers of a different respect with some uniquely nasty crimes. But Cy is worse, with more victims. One possible point in his favor? Leaving his brother Matt a tape of said niece's torture while gloating about how he'll never forget it.
Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 1st 2020 at 4:10:13 AM
I'm sticking with my no for Cy.
Like I said earlier, comparing Cy to other people who abuse family members, he has to compete with Alex Zorgen, who molded his own rape baby into a henchman. Conditioning one's son into being a human trafficker like one's self strikes me as far more heinous than a shorter period of time where one sexually abuses one's niece and tortures her with acid. They are both horrible things, don't get me wrong. But the first thing strikes me as a far worse form of sexual and psychological abuse, and it has a larger pool of victims.
And I haven't watched Criminal Minds in a while, so you can take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but when I watched the show, it seemed like almost every other killer had a cruel and unusual MO, which combined with Cy's low bodycount, does not make me inclined to keep him.
Scraggle, MAIN image page, as in Complete Monster. If we DO need a new image, I personally kinda like the Reapers having both the quote and the image.
I'll let debate on Cy and Floyd settle overnight. FWIW, I'm DEFINITELY in favor of cutting Floyd, and LEAN towards cutting Cy, but won't shed a tear if the latter stays.
Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2020 at 7:20:00 AM

Also, I just thought of a couple others: