During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Alright if that's it could we please close up shop and just do something else. please
Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:08:35 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Look, on Cy's case, my main point is that he is mentally challenged. Dude pretty much spend all his ability on being as cruel as he legitimately could
Watch me destroying my countryI mean he did try to rape and burn with acid his niece to death we'll taunting his brother about the fact he was going to Do it which is unique even for the show
Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:33:05 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'm gonna wait for more input on my effortpost until I can add my entry to the drafts, by the way.
Fair enough, but I'm saying that Cy seems almost generic for Criminal Minds.
When I watch Criminal Minds, I am nunder the impression that almost every other killer has cruel and unusual methods. And when you compare Cy to that sumbitch Zorgen, who was a worse family member in every way, and treated his own son worse (edit: keep in mind that I consider conditioning one's child into your violent criminal lifestyle, especially when it involves forced prostitution, especially heinous), I just find it hard to be impressed.
Addendum: Admittedly, relative lack of familiarity is why I stayed out of the initial discussion. I misunderstood why exactly Cy was insufficiently heinous. But yeah, the low body count does not sway me.
Re: An argument which isn't vague: Conditioning one's son into being a human trafficker like one's self strikes me as far more heinous than a shorter period of time where one sexually abuses one's niece and tortures her with acid. They are both horrible things, don't get me wrong. But the first thing strikes me as a far worse form of sexual and psychological abuse, and it has a larger pool of victims.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 1st 2020 at 3:11:58 PM
Max kills four people generically. Is that really what you want to cite. He didn't do anything on that level.
Also why are you citing another work entirely. Whataboutism isn't the best argument.
How exactly ? That genuinely is uniquely awful for the show. If your going to use an argument. Could you use one that's not vague.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:39:56 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Thinking it over and re looking at Cy's entry. I'm switching to keep as he seems uniquely bad enough for the show. Also please note that is the last thing I will say on the show.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 1:39:05 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread@acw: Do me a favour. Could you remove Rasailions entry from Doctor Who 20th AS "The Five Doctors". Note I'm not saying cut him general. I'm just saying remove it from the ymmv page. He doesn't actually count in five doctors. It's only his later appearances where he became pure evil and spoiling people for stuff that will occur decades into the future like it does seems a tad mean.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:07:29 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Well, either way, it's nice to have CM put to rest at long, long last.
Now for something completely different:
What's the work?
Legend of the Millennium Dragon is an anime film from 2011, featuring a teenager named Jun Tendo, sent back in time to the Heian era to resolve a war between human beings and their oni enemy. Jun is a descendant of the Magatama clan who can control the power of the legendary dragon the Yamata no Orochi....over his head, Jun is mentored by Monk Gen'un who is resisting the Oni...except when Jun meets the Oni upfront, he discovers they're people, who are fighting for their survival, and our true villain?
Who is Gen'un?
A wicked, power hungry monk, Gen'un orchestrated a war between the two sides in order to usurp the power of the Oni and make himself a god who will control the world. Using a talented young man named Raiko, Gen'un keeps the war going while wiping out a group of oni from the start. When Jun is sent back in time, Gen'un wastes no time attempting to sway and deceive him to exterminate the oni so he can gain their powers...
When Jun finds out the oni are people with special powers resisting an attempt to wipe them out. The leadership of Gen'un's temple soon finds out that maybe Gen'un hasn't been entirely honest and confronts him. Gen'un? Wipes them all out, murdering them while blaming others and gives Raiko and his closest magic suits of armor that reduce them to monsters he can control, intending on wiping out the Oni as Jun is forced to fight Raiko. When Raiko resists, Gen'un attempts to slaughter him instead....Gen'un proceeds to steal the power of the Kings, becoming a monster himself and attacks everyone there, even his own people with no care for who he destroys, boasting how he will take the world and rule like a god....Jun fights back with the power of Orochi. In the last battle there, Gen'un ends up torn apart by Jun's powers, destroyed utterly before his triumph can come to pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
Zilch. Gen'un presents as a pious, kind man who is defending his home, but is in truth a ruithless and greedy man manipulating a war that is killing both sides needlessly. He's the only actual villain and his intentions are simple things: to become a god and rule the world, killing his own people and not caring what he wipes out. He's attempting to engineer the extermination of the Oni tribe, kills the counsel of the temple, has some deeply personal cruelty with Raiko and nothing good about him to speak of.
Conclusion?
A keeper.
Gen'un
Played by Lex Lang. Who was Childerich In Suikoden V
Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:14:04 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gen'un and Script!Hans Gruber
OK, draft writeup for Dormammu for Ultimate Alliance 3 is as follows (it's on the page
too):
- Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order: Dormammu is the supreme ruler of the Dark Dimension and Arch-Enemy to Doctor Strange. When the heroes flee to the Dimension to escape the titular Black Order, they progress through and eventually find Dormammu has brainwashed Strange, using him to open a portal through which he can travel through directly and merge the Dark Dimension with the "main" universe, planning to use the Reality Stone to accomplish this to corrupt and torture all of reality. Once he becomes aware of the party, he turns Strange against them and takes great amusement at their efforts not to kill the Sorcerer despite being in mortal peril at his hand. When Strange first attempts to break free, Dormammu possesses him directly and vows that for the "crime" of trespassing, they shall pay with their lives. Angered when the Reality Stone causes an anomaly that allows his temporary defeat and the heroes steal the stone back, Dormammu drops all pretence of courtesy and respect and attempts to kill the party one final time as they flee to the moon. Despite his superficial politeness and only being the villain for one chapter, Dormammu's ultimate goal of absorbing, corrupting and torturing the universe, combined with his godlike powers and sadism, make him even viler than Thanos.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Master Li Monk Gen.
And if we do decide Cy does not count? Would indeed be the perfect demonstration of Criminal Minds Syndrome.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

Okay, I'm gonna TRY and do a count on Floyd.
So that's 3? cuts (myself, Lighty, falcontalons); 3? keeps (HT, XO, DDD); 2 okay with keeping (Tyk and Mir); and 43 who I'm not sure but wouldn't oppose cutting.
And speaking of cuts, Image!Karza was a consensus cut, right?
Yeah, what HT said
Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2020 at 2:06:56 PM