TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203701: Mar 1st 2020 at 8:17:44 AM

[tup] the Irons

(That joke will be lost on any non Iron Maiden fans)

[tdown] Demon!Magneto

Edited by captainmarkle on Mar 1st 2020 at 8:22:13 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203702: Mar 1st 2020 at 8:23:33 AM

Okay I tried counting but got lost since people kept brining up their votes multiple times and then switching back and forth and back or turning to abstain or ah... I think Flloyd at least is fine since he seems to have net keep votes. Cy I have no clue since its all over the place. Please could someone have a mod do the count.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#203703: Mar 1st 2020 at 8:26:10 AM

[tup]Black Flame & Irons

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 1st 2020 at 8:32:32 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203704: Mar 1st 2020 at 8:55:52 AM

[tup] Irons.


Finally, I may have a Die Hard effortpost of my own.

What is the work?

The Second Revised Draft of the Die Hard script is a Screenplay by Jeb Stuart, and the first of many revisions to what would eventually become an icon of action and christmas.

John McClane is invited to a party at Nakatomi Plaza where his wife, Holly Gennero, works. Things go awry when a group of "terrorists" led by Hans Gruber invade the party and take hostages.

Who is Hans Gruber and what has he done?

Like the film, Hans gives his little spiel about Nakatomi's corporate greed, only this time, he asks partygoers for identification. He makes small talk about Takagi about his suit, before asking Takagi for the code to the vault where Nakatomi keeps millions in treasury bonds, callously revealing that he doesn't need the code when the latter reveals a lack of knowledge regarding said code. He holds over 30 people hostage, and when the SWAT team tries to break through, he fires heavy artillery at them. Hans also shoots Harry Ellis in an attempt to pressure John into giving him back his explosives and detonators with which he intends on killing hostages so he can escape.

Unlike the film, Hans also deliberately has his men fire stinger missiles at the choppers, as opposed to killing them collaterally. He also kills an old woman who panics when she realizes that Hans is planning on killing the hostages.

Heinousness?

This version of Hans takes more hostages than he did in the film, is more deliberately ruthless (as exemplified by the fact that his destruction of the choppers is intentional in this version, as opposed to collateral damage), and lacks the relative pragmatism of the film version (as displayed when he shoots the woman in cold blood for no particular reason other than being frustrated that the hostages he planned to kill are leaving). Other than that, he is every bit as ruthless as the original if not moreso.

Also, as Lighty mentioned in the effortpost for the film version, Hans manages to kill scores of cops with comparatively limited resources, and almost kills over 30 others, plus 2 hostages, (3 in this draft of the script). I think that given that he doesn't have the supplies with which to down multiple planes, he still does some pretty ruthless stuff with what he's got.

Mitigating Qualities:

There is one moment that Hans seems confused by John's "now I have a machine gun", responding "would you do this to someone if you had a gun?" However, given that Hans is perfectly willing to murder police officers in an attempt to intimidate John, it falls flat in terms of having any standards, and his resigned declaration that he must tell Karl that his brother is dead comes off as frustration towards a blow to his team morale. He never indicates any care for his men, either.

Verdict?

I believe he is a possible contender. At the very least, he is worthy of discussion.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 8th 2025 at 12:36:07 PM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203705: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:00:41 AM

Sure to Hans; seems distinct enough.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#203708: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:11:07 AM

[tup] to Draft!Hans.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203709: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:13:23 AM

[tup]Hans

Who lacks the Magnificence of his final version it seems.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203710: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:23:56 AM

Yes to Hans. Makes you appreciate what they did with the character in final product even more.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:26:59 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203711: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:25:49 AM

Assuming I'm reading that post correctly...is "beta script that didn't get used" even a category we have on the site? It doesn't seem like a work that should really go on the page since it's just a rough draft of an actual movie

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203712: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:27:39 AM

[up]EDIT: My bad, it'll go on the Die Hard page, but we've approved characters from unproduced scripts before.

Edited by falcontalons on Mar 1st 2020 at 9:31:41 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203713: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:28:26 AM

[up][up] We have plenty unused scripts. They are on Other Media. Some including versions of already finished films.

[up] It will probably also go to the franchise page like we did with the Power Rangers and TMNT script ones.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:29:42 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203714: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:29:03 AM

Fair enough I wasn't aware of that

a [tup] on beta Hans then

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203716: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:30:31 AM

[up] Yes. Probably like we did with the ones I mentioned above. Which are on both.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:31:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203717: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:30:46 AM

Put it on both pages I guess like with the Monster.Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles example.

Edit: [nja]

Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 9:32:20 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203718: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:43:40 AM

Okay, I tried to tally the votes for Cy. Please let me know if I missed anyone:

[tup](8): FriedWarthog, KazuyaProta, ImperialMajestyXO, Kylotrope, HamburgerTime, miraculous, Bullman, Scraggle

[tdown](11): ACW, Lightysnake, Draxterrus, Tyk5919, falcontalons, DemonDuckofDoom, G-Editor, Overlord, Ravok, 43110, SkyCat32

[down][down]I'm only counting yesses and nos.

Edited by falcontalons on Mar 1st 2020 at 4:11:29 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#203719: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:44:54 AM

I thought some flipped in their votes. Otherwise, I guess I'm abstaining.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203720: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:47:53 AM

I stayed out of the discussion.

[up][up] Ok. Well, I lean cut for Cy at least, come to think of it.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:54:22 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#203721: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:49:34 AM

Honestly I don't really care what happens

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 1st 2020 at 9:51:30 AM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203723: Mar 1st 2020 at 9:58:55 AM

I'm purposely staying out of it as I haven't really watched the show in years. But if I had to cast a vote I say cut just to be safe.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:02:31 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#203725: Mar 1st 2020 at 10:56:22 AM

Wow, looks like Cy's gonna go. Can't say I ever saw that coming in a million years.

If you're unfamiliar with the show, this character's MO is s l o w l y burning his victims' sensory organs away with acid before he kills them, and the heroes bust him just before he can rape his own niece. That we've decided he doesn't count is basically the show's HS summed up right there, I think.


Total posts: 326,048
Top